Royal Canadian Air Force (RCAF) News and Discussions

[t68]

True but I can see this changing once the NAFTA negotiations fall apart. If the US were to ban the the sale I honestly would be uncertain as to the fallout. Junior would be forced to accelerate the fast jet replacement if he wants to keep the RCAF viable but he has no money or interest in doing this until his second mandate. A ban could create more anti-Americanism giving him political cover to do nothing. Then there is the real possibility that Trump will kill NAFTA as well. This could allow junior either to buy into the cheaper Euro solution (Gripen) or end the RCAF's fast jet capability. He could likely sell the latter option by claiming to use the savings for the RCN and buying some extra transport planes and helicopters for UN missions to enhance his image with that pathetic organization. Our electorate is stupid enough to accept this.

I suspect he's leaving enough carrot in front of the horse so that F35 manufacturing in Canada does not collapse.

 

[John Fedup]

Boeing claims 17,000 jobs in Canada as a result of their operations, LM likely will approach that if Canada buys the F-35. None of this matters as much of this activity isn't in Quebec so junior doesn't give a $hit.

 

[t68]

Boeing claims 17,000 jobs in Canada as a result of their operations, LM likely will approach that if Canada buys the F-35. None of this matters as much of this activity isn't in Quebec so junior doesn't give a $hit.

Does that one province hold that much sway contrary to the rest of the nation?

 

[John Fedup]

In terms of obtaining a majority government, the short answer is yes. Party support is a mixed bag in most provinces accept Quebec. The Liberals are pretty much the only option for Québécois voters now (because they will suck up best) and this block provides an almost certain minority government and with suitable bribes to special left leaning groups elsewhere in Canada they can add seats to build a majority. Harper only managed to win a majority because Chrétien was even hated in Québec during his final years. The Liberal party only recovered due to the death of the popular leftist NPD party leader who captured much of the Québec voters and all the fools here that bought into junior as the "second coming".

In short the defence negligent Liberals will be around for years to come and if you think we are in sad shape now, just wait until 2030 or maybe earlier!

 

[John Fedup]

More on the Quebec influence and Australian classic Hornets in this link. In particular, L-3 MAS, based in Quebec, is expected to get work.....what a surprise!

Australian F-18s being considered by Canada to be removed from service by 2022 | Ottawa Citizen

 

[hauritz]

If we assume that Boeing have just taken themselves out of the picture as far as the replacement of the Hornet is concerned and of course, Trudeau has already famously announced that the F-35 would not be acquired under his watch that really only leaves the Europeans. Basically a bunch of 20-year-old designs that while they are still a quite capable aircraft are no longer what you would consider bleeding edge technology.

While Canada is still thinking about whether it should buy an aircraft such as the Rafale France itself is in the early stages of planning their replacements.

The fact that at least two Eurofighter operators, the UK and Italy are currently buying F-35s should be a pretty clear indicator of what those countries think of their own products. A number of other European operators are following suit in preferring the F-35 to domestic designs.

It seems to me that Trudeau has shot himself in regards to replacing the hornets. He will be either forced to back down and buy the American fighters or will stick Canada with some outdated European design that even the Europeans don't seem particularly enamoured with.

 

[John Fedup]

Given his horrible fiscal management and his creation of a looming defence bill tsunami by the mid to late twenties by delaying recapitalization of important defence assets, there is a real possibility of the third option. Canada may abandon fast jets. It eases the capital outlay, his no F-35 promise is kept, and most Canadians won't notice. Trump has already threatened to end NAFTA so that carrot is gone anyway and the Trump-Turd relationship is a joke.

 

[ngatimozart]

I wouldn't necessarily accept Canada's acquisition of the RAAF classic hornets as a given because the Canadian defence procurement system is not the sharpest knife on the block. It changes it's mind and direction more often than a lady of the night lowers and raises her underwear.

 

[John Fedup]

That is true but realistically are there any other prospects that would move faster?

 

[StingrayOZ]

That is true but realistically are there any other prospects that would move faster?

Maybe not, but they might last longer.. how long will the RAAF jets keep them flying? 2022?

I could see the RAAF F-18 being useful life extension before another program (inc a US fighter) was fully upped to speed. But other than that it seems thin.

While I know of some Canadians that think they don't need ITAR/FMS approval, I bet the US could apply significant pressure to Australia anyway. I just don't see the US being happy with this.

From Australia's point of view, Malaysia would make a more sensible destination. Malaysia could get out of Russian fighters completely and operate a strategically useful number of fighters for a longer period at lower cost. This could then gateway Malaysia onto say super hornets. A deal I'm sure the US would be happier with.

It changes it's mind and direction more often than a lady of the night lowers and raises her underwear.

But doesn't seem to get as much done!

 

[John Fedup]

While the US could block Australia from selling the classics to Canada, I don’t think it benefits the US. The likely result would be cover for junior to buy Euro or nothing at all. Better to wait until the Hornets die off in the late twenties and try to sell F-35s.

 

[Vulcan]

The fact that at least two Eurofighter operators, the UK and Italy are currently buying F-35s should be a pretty clear indicator of what those countries think of their own products.

If that's why you think ENG/ITA are buying F-35 then you're sorely mistaken.

 

[John Fedup]

Both the UK and Italian navies need F-35Bs for their STOVL carriers. Their Typhoons aren't going away anytime soon.

 

[swerve]

They also both have Tornadoes which are getting old, & they want to replace them with strike aircraft - hence the F-35A for Italy.

 

[John Fedup]

They also both have Tornadoes which are getting old, & they want to replace them with strike aircraft - hence the F-35A for Italy.

Is the UK going to use F-35Bs for both the RN and RAF?

 

[oldsig127]

Is the UK going to use F-35Bs for both the RN and RAF?

Yes, and both will deploy on the carriers from time to time. Somewhat mirrors the situation n the last days of the Harrier "Joint Force Harrier"

oldsig

 

[ngatimozart]

Is the UK going to use F-35Bs for both the RN and RAF?

Yes and the RAF pilots will be carrier deck certified.

 

[John Fedup]

With the announcement that used Hornets will be purchased from Australia, it comes as no surprise that rumours are surfacing that junior will further delay a competition for new jets until after the next election, yet another abandoned commitment. Hundreds of millions will be wasted trying keep a geriatric Hornet fleet operational until he can fool the electorate that Canada doesn't need fast jets anymore.

Feds planning to push back delivery date for new fighter jets: sources | Calgary Herald

 

[swerve]

Yes and the RAF pilots will be carrier deck certified.

I've heard suggestions that there'll be two grades of deck qualification, with RN having the higher grade.

Both should be easier to acquire & maintain than cat & trap carrier qualification, though. The F-35B's supposed to be easier than the Harrier, & RAF crews who'd never seen a carrier before got deck quals then headed south to join the war in a couple of weeks in 1982. It worked.

 

[StobieWan]

STOVL conversion training is a total doddle for the B apparently - the Harrier was a two week affair, getting used to juggling the controls, whereas B is not quite point and click but you can take your hands off the controls in a hover and *not die* which is apparently nice.

Certainly a lot easier and with less drama.


So, I expect the FAA pilots will be deck qualified, night and day and the RAF pilots will be expected to have a solid understanding of getting the thing down in one piece. then work from there in a shooting war.