I wonder what the life expectancy of the OPVs will be. For a continuous build I am thinking around twenty years.
Royal Australian Navy Discussions and Updates
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In that excruciatingly painful Senate committee where this was discussed, the CN had to repeatedly explain to the then Opposition Defence spokesman that a continuous build didn't mean making the same thing until doomsday, so that the life expectancy of a type doesn't set the length of a cycle - if the life is longer than the time to build all of the type, something else moves on to the line.
It's still not quite sunk in to most political minds, or mayb ethey're being wilfully ignorant. The plan released a couple of days ago (and the presentation quoted here today) mentions that the continuous build at Henderson won't always be OPVs
oldsig
As oldsig says, OPVs, minewarfare and survey ship, replacement BF Cape Class and continuing back to next gen OPVs.
Continuous, continuous, continuous. (Not having a go at you but for the wilfully ignorant)
Which are the unions that will have a lot of power in what is effectively a monopoly shipbuilding industry in this continuous ship build?
I hope they have the national interest at heart, rather than narrow self interest, but to do so would abrogate their raison d'être, unless they take a long term perspective and avoid a future government reversing this continuous "guarantee".
Relying on people given enormous power to not use/abuse that power does not have a good history. Look at CFMEU/BLF/Painters &Dockers/Newspaper Print Union/ etc.
I hope they have the national interest at heart, rather than narrow self interest, but to do so would abrogate their raison d'être, unless they take a long term perspective and avoid a future government reversing this continuous "guarantee".
Relying on people given enormous power to not use/abuse that power does not have a good history. Look at CFMEU/BLF/Painters &Dockers/Newspaper Print Union/ etc.
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While a Victorian I do hate to seen no ships being built at Williamstown I think some clarity needs to be bought in.
While the Eastern states wont be building the ships as per the shipbuilding plan no where in it does it rule them out from from building hull sections.
We wont be seeing the closure of every other ship builder as some states (Vic) are dramatizing but simply that the final build states taking place at 2 set locations allowing for all other shipbuilders to evolve from ship builders to block builders.
This in no way will guarantee a monopoly for the unions in Henderson or Adelaide. Ignoring the fact that in the past the unions have largely sorted issues out before the build then worked extremely professionally to the highest global standards through out the build if they start pushing it there is nothing to stop the government shifting any block construction/after build outfitting taking place there to other locations.
The assembly of the blocks are only part of the full build.
On a side note, Naturally the WA Mafia had to start up again with them 'only' getting $100m of the $1.3 billion in upgrades, Complaining that the $1.2b to SA is wasted as WA already has everything needed in place (No they dont, what they have is geared towards paramilitary craft at best, civilian vessels for the most part and only a fraction of it is for steel, Vastly different from high tech combatants) and dismissing the fact they will receive the bulk of all RAN maintenance and support through out the life of the vessels.
OT but part of me would just love to see the secessionist nut jobs in WA succeed just to watch the state economy bugger up on them.
While the Eastern states wont be building the ships as per the shipbuilding plan no where in it does it rule them out from from building hull sections.
We wont be seeing the closure of every other ship builder as some states (Vic) are dramatizing but simply that the final build states taking place at 2 set locations allowing for all other shipbuilders to evolve from ship builders to block builders.
This in no way will guarantee a monopoly for the unions in Henderson or Adelaide. Ignoring the fact that in the past the unions have largely sorted issues out before the build then worked extremely professionally to the highest global standards through out the build if they start pushing it there is nothing to stop the government shifting any block construction/after build outfitting taking place there to other locations.
The assembly of the blocks are only part of the full build.
On a side note, Naturally the WA Mafia had to start up again with them 'only' getting $100m of the $1.3 billion in upgrades, Complaining that the $1.2b to SA is wasted as WA already has everything needed in place (No they dont, what they have is geared towards paramilitary craft at best, civilian vessels for the most part and only a fraction of it is for steel, Vastly different from high tech combatants) and dismissing the fact they will receive the bulk of all RAN maintenance and support through out the life of the vessels.
OT but part of me would just love to see the secessionist nut jobs in WA succeed just to watch the state economy bugger up on them.
The Cape class will be interesting. They come out of a different bucket of money and Navy seem keen to keep the processes separate. Even Cape 9 and 10 (short term Navy) a different model while being based on the same original contract.
These vessels also operate under a different regulatory structure to 'warships' still being subject to the Navigation Act 2012.
We will have to wait and see given Border Force is likely to have reasonably new Cape Class and when or how these will be replaced is not being considered at this time as far as I can tell....... I could well be wrong as we have been taken buy surprise a number of times recently.
Actually I think the idea of CoA owned shipyard has it advantages. Each new program is competed and won by the best value contractor - not necessarily ASC. The successful contractor then resets the Union award within CoA Fair Work conditions, but removes any outrageous Union plundering from the previous project. It may even be able to be reset on a batch by batch basis.
In the UK HMG is over a barrel because BAE owns the major shipyard's on the Clyde and Govt has to promise to keep shipyards working under the existing terms and conditions, without chance of a reset.
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That sounds reassuring. Hopefully lessons from past have been learned.
Re UK ship building contract problem, another example of short term thinking on contracts is the PFI/PPP for in flight refuelling aircraft (Air Tanker) and the UK now thinking they may want booms added to their A-330's. Not that UK is alone in signing up to restrictive PFI/PPP contracts (think toll roads in Australia).
The Cape class replacement is shown to follow SEA 1180 at figure 7.2 page 110 of the shipbuilding plan.
I guess they lump all commonwealth shipbuilding into a combined bucket of money in the same way that the Pacific Patrol Boats may come from the foreign aid budget?
its a witches brew. eg some hulls are coming out of border protection, civ crew, commercial oversight etc.... but have a nurse in charge at the big meetings...
What's the nurse for? To discuss the spec for HADR roles?
The LHD azipod drama continues, with ADELAIDE now in CCDD.
ABC report here https://youtu.be/mcYexTP6HoM
ABC report here https://youtu.be/mcYexTP6HoM
t68
Well-Known Member
nurse is a nickname for sailors/commanders/captains - because they dress in white.
Going into Dy Dock should hopefully mean RAN have identified the fix and are implementing it.
Re "jinxed" and propulsion system problems with 2 different classes of ship, the common denominator seems to be RAN.
Should RAN look at itself to see why it is having problems no one else has had to address?
depends on support contract constraints
and I'll think you'll find that we've got more hours up than the FOC ship
in addition, its not a like for like comparison - it will ultimately be looking at engineering mapping as the energy reqs on RAN are higher than the Spanish vessel. ie citadels in RANs acquisitions would be "warmer" than the spanish. ie they have a greater comms load up, so its will be a elec generation mapping issue as well as assessing whether its mechanical etc....
spanish and RAN vessels are not identical in build, fitout so no like for like comparison is relevant
Assail wrote about his experience on the old HMAS Anzac going flat strap for 8 hours. I had a friend who pretty much said the same thing when he was serving on the Fremantle boats. It seems the navy does like to flog its ships pretty hard.
While I kind of understand the necessity of training hard it is ultimately the taxpayer that picks up the bill when they break something.
New Submarines
:fly
IMHO fitting at least one of the reworked Collins Class with the French Azipod propulsion system so as to 'test' if for faults could be a huge blessing for the RAN.
:fly
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