Royal New Zealand Air Force

MrConservative

Super Moderator
Staff member
NZ Herald article on the RAF A-400M coming to Ohakea this weekend. The article is also talking up the KC-390 as well.

Heavy metal: Airbus plane like a Hercules on steroids swooping in to NZ to woo Defence chiefs
Nice to have it down here. Shame it is not flying and only a static display.

I have to say that probably the flying display side of things was too 'thin' to take the time to travel down to OH for the weekend. If the F-15, the A400 and the KC-767 had been flying I may have thought about it though.
 

ngatimozart

Super Moderator
Staff member
Verified Defense Pro
I see Kawasaki C2 or P1 not mentioned, are they not present at the tatoo? surprising seeing their rivals for the RNZAF tenders are present.
No they will not be present. The Japanese presence is a JASDF KC-767, which I believe is then going on to Avalon. The RNZAF would have had a good look at the P-1 when it was here last November. Note also that the KC-390 will not be present as well. Whether or not the Brazilians were given an invitation is unknown to me.
 

ngatimozart

Super Moderator
Staff member
Verified Defense Pro
The KC-390 has achieved its first dry AAR contacts with a FAB Northrop F-5 being used as the receiving aircraft. Also the KC-390 is to undergo austere airfield trials in ice and snow in order to support the Brazilian Antarctic program. Embraer state that they will be able to accommodate export orders from 2019. It has also responded to the NZ FAMC RFI.

It has been said to me more than once, that Airbus should send an A-400M out here to undertake some flights to McMurdo, in order to ensure that it can fully undertake that role. I agree that this is not a silly idea. Ideally it should also be able to undertake mid winter flights between Christchurch and McMurdo as well, just as the USAF C-17s currently do.
 

kiwipatriot69

Active Member
Yes, id like to see A400 M do an Antarctic flight too beforhand to help prove its capabilities to us here in Nz, and maybe show it loading up some our outsized cargo like the new Man trucks, our Lav3, or NH90 even.
 

Rob c

The Bunker Group
Verified Defense Pro
Ohakea is hotting up, Had a formation of 5 large aircraft fly low over the house an hour ago. I did not get outside quick enough to see them all before the went below the trees, but the last 2 were C130's. Sound effects were great.
 

ngatimozart

Super Moderator
Staff member
Verified Defense Pro
Ohakea is hotting up, Had a formation of 5 large aircraft fly low over the house an hour ago. I did not get outside quick enough to see them all before the went below the trees, but the last 2 were C130's. Sound effects were great.
The A-400M left Nadi this morning so would expect it OH this arvo / evening depending upon if it flies direct or via AKL.

Update: The RAF A-400 is reported to have arrived in Wellington this arvo.
 
Last edited:

ngatimozart

Super Moderator
Staff member
Verified Defense Pro
I believe this is for Big Gerry to inspect the onboard galley facilities.
He'll be disappointed - it doesn't come fitted with a galley. Maybe the Army can supply a field kitchen when required.
Probably a sumptuous luncheon at the British High Commission will follow. :D
Jellied eels and pickled cabbage? :D

The Canuck C-10J, US C-17, RSAF F-15 & KC-135 & RAAF F-18s have arrived. Think the USAF F-16s & KC-135 have too, but unsure.
 

MrConservative

Super Moderator
Staff member
He'll be disappointed - it doesn't come fitted with a galley. Maybe the Army can supply a field kitchen when required.
There is actually a very small galley space in the avionics and storage bay. It was the first thing I checked for when I heard Gerry became the DefMin as I realised it would be a significant dimension in him proffering his advice to Cabinet. Not big but as long as it can store a dozen of his favourite Iced Buns and keep warm his Mince & Cheese Pies he will be a happy camper.
 

kiwipatriot69

Active Member
Do you think this could put our govt off purchasing A400? For that matter ,Embraer to has had contoversy with corruption over the sales of its aircraft,maybe this will create a better deal for us with both countries seemly desperate for sales?
 

ngatimozart

Super Moderator
Staff member
Verified Defense Pro
Do you think this could put our govt off purchasing A400? For that matter ,Embraer to has had contoversy with corruption over the sales of its aircraft,maybe this will create a better deal for us with both countries seemly desperate for sales?
I don't know. Airbus has it's own corruption scandal as well (civil aircraft) so that side of things is nothing new in general. Leonardo have ongoing ones as well as undoubtedly do other companies, although they are most likely better or luckier at not being caught. The Indians are always banning companies for corrupt or alleged corrupt practices, which speaks to problems within their system as well.
 

MrConservative

Super Moderator
Staff member
Do you think this could put our govt off purchasing A400? For that matter ,Embraer to has had contoversy with corruption over the sales of its aircraft,maybe this will create a better deal for us with both countries seemly desperate for sales?
No. Because that article, which superficially deals with a longstanding gripe between the investor nations and the consortium over realistic developmental funding levels stretching back nearly 15 years, has nothing to do with any possible procurement contract between the NZ Govt and Airbus. Note that the linked article mentions that the penalty is putting pressure on another new project and not the A400M.
 

John Fedup

The Bunker Group
Airbus received an additional €3.5 billion from the Euro customers in 2010 to sort the A400M and in doing so they agreed to penalties if they failed to do so. They have failed to perform on delivery and there is only a temporary fix for the engine gearbox. What's the point of penalties if they aren't enforced? The answer is there is no point as Airbus is a corporate welfare case and the EU is stuck with them. Airbus is laughing at them and will threaten massive job loses if they don't bend over and pay up. NZ should have grabbed a couple of C-17 white tails when they had the chance. It would be better to press the US to offer a couple of USAF C-17s. A safer choice with a proven record.

In hindsight Canada and PWC should be glad the engine work didn't go here or we would be still awaiting for transport aircraft, one of the few decent military acquisitions Canada managed. Maybe PWC could have done a better job but the turboprop engine requirement was demanding.
 

MrConservative

Super Moderator
Staff member
Airbus received an additional €3.5 billion from the Euro customers in 2010 to sort the A400M and in doing so they agreed to penalties if they failed to do so. They have failed to perform on delivery and there is only a temporary fix for the engine gearbox. What's the point of penalties if they aren't enforced? The answer is there is no point as Airbus is a corporate welfare case and the EU is stuck with them. Airbus is laughing at them and will threaten massive job loses if they don't bend over and pay up. NZ should have grabbed a couple of C-17 white tails when they had the chance. It would be better to press the US to offer a couple of USAF C-17s. A safer choice with a proven record.

In hindsight Canada and PWC should be glad the engine work didn't go here or we would be still awaiting for transport aircraft, one of the few decent military acquisitions Canada managed. Maybe PWC could have done a better job but the turboprop engine requirement was demanding.
The truth is that Airbus even though it is now a listed corporate entity it started life as a typical European multi-governmental Groupement d'Intérêt Économique organisation and the political meddling has always been there for good and for bad as there has always been the whiff of Brussels hanging over its shoulders. Louis Chenevert of P&W has indeed said "I told you so" when it came to being able to deliver, but alas it was European politics that had to have it there way. I would not sheet all the blame home to the corporate entity that is the latest incarnation of Airbus - quite a lot has to do with the political dimension that forced them into certain engineering cul de sac's that have had fiscal repercussions.

No argument from me about the virtues of the C-17 and that the failure to secure available whitetails when they had the chance was a major blunder taking the long term view. I do suspect though that it would be a heck of a lot tougher sourcing a couple of ex USAF airframes under the current Trump administration for the RNZAF.
 

ngatimozart

Super Moderator
Staff member
Verified Defense Pro
Airbus used the RAF A400M to take media on a flight this arvo out of Wellington and over the Marlborough Sounds. Below are links to the media coverage on this and the A400M here in NZ.

Heavy metal: Airbus plane like a Hercules on steroids swooping in to NZ to woo Defence chiefs

Is Airbus sales push for its 'Hercules on steroids' to NZ Mission Impossible?

Taking a spin in a monster plane - what Airbus' A400M can do

Royal Air Force giant touches down in capital to spearhead European sales pitch
This article states that "analysts have suggested the Brazilian Embraer KC-390, at around half the price of the A400M, is the frontrunner". I wonder who those analysts are and on what grounds they base that? Just interested in what their argument is.

Airbus A400M touches down in NZ

Why Airbus needs NZ

Overall the coverage states that the C130s need replacing and I would say that the coverage is fair. They mention the issues that Airbus has and problems the aircraft has had, but they don't make a judgement and they mention the cost.
 

recce.k1

Well-Known Member
Airbus used the RAF A400M to take media on a flight this arvo out of Wellington and over the Marlborough Sounds. Below are links to the media coverage on this and the A400M here in NZ.

Heavy metal: Airbus plane like a Hercules on steroids swooping in to NZ to woo Defence chiefs

Is Airbus sales push for its 'Hercules on steroids' to NZ Mission Impossible?

Taking a spin in a monster plane - what Airbus' A400M can do

Royal Air Force giant touches down in capital to spearhead European sales pitch
This article states that "analysts have suggested the Brazilian Embraer KC-390, at around half the price of the A400M, is the frontrunner". I wonder who those analysts are and on what grounds they base that? Just interested in what their argument is.

Airbus A400M touches down in NZ

Why Airbus needs NZ

Overall the coverage states that the C130s need replacing and I would say that the coverage is fair. They mention the issues that Airbus has and problems the aircraft has had, but they don't make a judgement and they mention the cost.
Good to see the A400 making this visit and importantly, giving defence and govt officials the opportunity to get to know its capabilities first hand.

Can't help feeling though the MSM is missing the mark when they talk about the A400 being a C-130 replacement contender. Planning wise the NZDF requires a tactical replacement within 3 years or so (presumably that's where the likes of the KC-390 or C-130J come into contention, plus they are largely "do-able" in that timeframe). Be interesting to see if Airbus can make the A400 available in that timeframe otherwise if not, then all is not lost for them in terms of the strategic replacement mix earmarked for the early to mid 2020's? Along with the C-2 presumably, and/or any KC-46 or KC-30 type .... ideally the NZDF needs around 3 different types but I suppose if one of the manufacturers can make one of their options fit two of the types/roles, that'll sway the bean counters ...?
 

ngatimozart

Super Moderator
Staff member
Verified Defense Pro
RNZAF Twitter feed has the two F-16C's and the KC-135 just landed minutes ago at OH.

https://twitter.com/NZAirForce?ref_src=twsrc^google|twcamp^serp|twgr^author

Great to see the F-16 back at OH after 30 years and 15 years on from when they should have been there with Kiwi roundels.

If history had gone 'better' maybe they would have just gone through their MLU upgrades to V standard in time for the RNZAF's 80th .... :(

Oh well ....
They were cutting it close because apparently one fell over ( went u\s - broke down) in Aussie and a replacement had to be organised from Japan.

See the RAAF have a Shornet at OH as well.
 
Last edited:
Top