Indian Military Aviation; News, Updates & Discussions

India should order the IL-476 with the new engines.
You increase range or decrease fuel consumption.. or both.
It makes no sense bying base line IL-76 any more.
 
John Fedup said:
No kidding! I guess LM and Saab won't be expecting any rapid decision on a single engine fighter from India based on recent purchase horror shows. I shouldn't complain, India takes the heat off our $hit procurement performance as of late.
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I've been seeing articles in the US complaining about LM offering the F-16 line to India, saying that it would outsource jobs... Yeah... That line is shutting down no matter what.
 
Tsavo Lion said:
That's what I mean, the IL-76MD90A. In payload, 13 ILs equal 10 IAF C-17s, saving ~$1,543B.
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I am unfamiliar why the C-17 is so very expensive and why the production stopped.
Why does not anyone want to buy it any more,, its not like the A400M is so got damn less expensive or what?

Is the A-400M capability overlapping the C-17 capability that it made no more sense to keep building the C-17?
 
Everyone who wanted any have bought them - there's not a lot of countries that actually sustain that sort of ops at distance or need to do disaster relief on short fields etc so the customer base was filled and that's that.
 
I think if there was two left, NZ likely would buy them. If there were 10-15 a year ago, I wonder if Germany, the U.K. or even France would opt for some given the A400 delay.
 
Tsavo Lion said:
I found it here. IMO, India could save tons of $ by buying new IL-76s from Russia: $218M vs.$49M, 169M difference, not counting operational costs that, all things considered, are also less for the latter. 1 C-17 costs as much as ~3.5 IL-76s, & they could order more IL-76s to make up for some loss of capability!
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The big drawback of the Il-76 is cargo box cross-section. That's why the An-70 was designed. The A400M was also designed around the cargo box. There are too many things that can't be fitted into an Il-76.

The C-17 has a bigger box than the A400M & An-70, much bigger than Il-76. That matters.
 
swerve said:
The big drawback of the Il-76 is cargo box cross-section. That's why the An-70 was designed. The A400M was also designed around the cargo box. There are too many things that can't be fitted into an Il-76.

The C-17 has a bigger box than the A400M & An-70, much bigger than Il-76. That matters.
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That, and the Il-476 production pace is fairly slow with the first aircraft going to domestic priorities like the new A-100 AEW program, etc. India would likely have to wait some time before they can get any significant quantities of new-built Il-76s. Meanwhile the C-17s are here now. Also the Indians were less then thrilled with the post-sale support on their existing Il-76 fleet. Unfortunately, outside Sukhoi, Russian manufacturers can't seem to get their shit together when it comes to keeping planes flying. And even with Sukhoi, they're still subpar compared to western companies.
 
In the Eastern hemisphere, Antonov has crumbled, and thus Iljusjin is the only left to pick up the pices for such platforms, so it is what it is, no matter how much more efficient the Antonov platform possible could be.

Iljusjin can expect to produce a decent amount of IL-476 for different purpose, the IL-478 tanker, the A-100 AWACS.
And that is a somewhat positive thing, you can use the same airframe for three different purpose i guess.

Russia are at the same time running a upgrade on their IL-76 fleet with the MD variant, even though its without new engine. But who knows, that might come later.
 
Haavarla said:
In the Eastern hemisphere, Antonov has crumbled, and thus Iljusjin is the only left to pick up the pices for such platforms, so it is what it is, no matter how much more efficient the Antonov platform possible could be.

Iljusjin can expect to produce a decent amount of IL-476 for different purpose, the IL-478 tanker, the A-100 AWACS.
And that is a somewhat positive thing, you can use the same airframe for three different purpose i guess.

Russia are at the same time running a upgrade on their IL-76 fleet with the MD variant, even though its without new engine. But who knows, that might come later.
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Ilyushin is in just as sorry a state as Antonov. With the exception that they have more money, and a real customer (the Russian state). So while they're no better in terms of putting out modern aircraft, they can focus their entire efforts on a couple of projects with guaranteed sales. At least that was true 4 years ago. With the current war in Ukraine, the collapse of An-148 production, the cancellation of the An-140 in Russia, and the An-70 being a white elephant, Antonov may be in worse shape. However Ilyushin is still in a sorry state. They haven't really rolled out any new aircraft, the Il-112 will be their first. And so far information coming out hasn't been too impressive. Realistically, best case scenario, Ilyushin will be slowly coming back to life as it puts out the Il-112 and it's upgrades, and re-works the Il-114 and Il-96 projects for future production. Of course all of this leaves the MTA project with India as a big question mark. On the one hand Ilyushin will have its hands full as is, on the other hand it's both a necessary aircraft a chance for them to grab market share in an area where they currently have no offering.
 
thought the Russian-Indian MTA program was dead..? or am i mistaken it for another program.

A shame the IL-76MF never happened.. the 90's killed it.
Wonder how many are operating the 76, it almost reached 1000 units.
 
Haavarla said:
thought the Russian-Indian MTA program was dead..? or am i mistaken it for another program.
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Supposedly India pulled out, but given their habit of cancelling and restarting tenders, I wouldn't be too surprised if they somehow end up buying the aircraft anyway, especially if development continues despite their withdrawal from the program.

A shame the IL-76MF never happened.. the 90's killed it.
Wonder how many are operating the 76, it almost reached 1000 units.
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A laundry list of countries. It's still a common bird, and with the production restart, it's likely a lot of ex-VVS airframes will become available for dirt-cheap resale. Overall it's not a bad option but it comes with above-mentioned limitations.
 
So without any research, i would guess the MTA is for a replacement for the An-26/32 for both countries, perhaps even for the older An-12'ish platform as well?

Alltough It is/was India-Russia program, doesn't China also need such size Cargo hauler?
 
Haavarla said:
So without any research, i would guess the MTA is for a replacement for the An-26/32 for both countries, perhaps even for the older An-12'ish platform as well?

Alltough It is/was India-Russia program, doesn't China also need such size Cargo hauler?
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China domestically produces updated An-12 clones, so they have no need for a Russian import. They might be interested in a full joint development program but I suspect Russia wouldn't be willing to give them so much access. They've proven themselves to be far better at making use of acquired tech then the Indians.
 
Feanor said:
China domestically produces updated An-12 clones, so they have no need for a Russian import. They might be interested in a full joint development program but I suspect Russia wouldn't be willing to give them so much access. They've proven themselves to be far better at making use of acquired tech then the Indians.
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Well for how long are China able to Milk everything out of a early 60's design.. as the An-12 is? That thing can't possible be up to par with come 2017 requirements.

Perhaps as you said, Russia is dumping India and will go alone with MTA, and then offer it to both India and China.
 
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John Fedup said:
I think if there was two left, NZ likely would buy them. If there were 10-15 a year ago, I wonder if Germany, the U.K. or even France would opt for some given the A400 delay.
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For the UK, A400 overlaps with C17 - there are genuinely situations where it's neater to pack loads up into a C17 and then move them locally using A400 to short/rough strips. And we're partners in the program so...
 
China's A400M counterpart is the Y-30, it Could Enter Service In 2020s.There'll be a surplus of 13 A-400Ms as Germany decided to use only 40 of them. India could buy those. IMO, since her older IL-76s need upgrade/replacement, instead of getting all 10 C-17s, she could have ordered fewer of them + some IL-76MDs that can be delivered faster than the IL-476s, as PRC did. Edit: last year, they were negotiating a deal for 6 IL-78MD-90A. since, it became known that IL-78 air-tankers to be part of IAF as India scraps Airbus deal.
 
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Just curious about the turnaround time for fighter jets to land get quick service and take off during wartime.
Gripes Ng for instance has 10 mins turnaround time.
Anybody knows for other jets like F35, F16, F/A 18, Rafale, Ef typhoon, SU30mki, Chinese jets, Mig 29, F22.
 
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