Royal Australian Navy Discussions and Updates

[Muar River]

Over red rover.

Given current circumstances I would say its almost a given that the F-105 based frigate will be built. The chatter I hear its almost a done deal as in when not if and sooner rather than later.

With AWD crews being worked up and ~70%+ commonality and as you mentioned a warm production line its going to be very hard to argue to get anything else in the time frame. The real question is how many of that type will be built.

Not getting a 4th AWD isn't such a loss given the Anzac replacements are going to be very powerful ships in their own right.

Now with the AWD's hitting the water, builds need to continue. Decisions to be made.

A build on time and within budget (like the Anzac programme) won't do the RAN or industry any harm. If economies of scale can be achieved, could the Kiwis be tempted to buy three low klm frigates and the AWDs replaced early? Could a buy of more Romeos be a possibility? I think it is a very exciting time for the RAN.

There is an image of a FREMM (French) frigate as a contender for the Canadian frigate programme. It is in the Warships magazine but the forward tower is reminiscent of Navantia future frigate design to accommodate CEAFAR. Does anyone have thoughts on this?

 

[Milne Bay]

Right ....... It is NOT an OPV. It is a commercial vessel loosely based on the Damen EGC design with a similar hull form to the OPV 2400. It has different upper works, machinery arrangement and internal arrangements.

It will be operated as a commercial vessel by DMS

Sycamore (Sydney).
Who thought of that name?
Ready for sea trials it seems
MB

 

[alexsa]

Sycamore (Sydney).
Who thought of that name?
Ready for sea trials it seems
MB

The Sycamore was the RAN;s first really serviceable helicopter .... Quite suitable for a helecopter training ship when you think about it.

 

[Milne Bay]

The Sycamore was the RAN;s first really serviceable helicopter .... Quite suitable for a helecopter training ship when you think about it.

That would explain it.
Thanks Alexsa
MB

 

[alexsa]

Cool pic, not to shabby for a phone.






It's a pity really that we could not build another two AWD to make five and give enough breathing space for T26.

It seems to be looking like its coming down to industry needs more than RAN needs, from what I have heard T26 is the RAN preferred choice so it will come down to that just like the AWD project.

Sorry I have to call you on this. Where have you heard that the T26 is the RAN preferred choice. This is not something that is bandied about and a 'preferred choice' would mean senior involvement.

So I am quite interested in your source.

 

[gf0012-aust]

Sorry I have to call you on this. Where have you heard that the T26 is the RAN preferred choice. This is not something that is bandied about and a 'preferred choice' would mean senior involvement.

So I am quite interested in your source.

same, no one with any insight into the process would even be commenting as nothing has been defined in the first place

nothing has been established re hull, hull selection. or fitout

 

[gf0012-aust]

The Sycamore was the RAN;s first really serviceable helicopter .... Quite suitable for a helecopter training ship when you think about it.

have a few happy snaps of sycamores rotating off HMAS Sydney circa Korea War

 

[t68]

Sorry I have to call you on this. Where have you heard that the T26 is the RAN preferred choice. This is not something that is bandied about and a 'preferred choice' would mean senior involvement.

So I am quite interested in your source.

Nothing written as a source, just talk to several navy pers and they all seem to say the same thing, T26 seems to be the consences, hence my comment on being the preferred choice.

 

[John Fedup]

Nothing written as a source, just talk to several navy pers and they all see to say the same thing, T26 seems to be the consences, hence my comment on being the preferred choice.

Canadian Defence Review (Vol.22/issue4) has an nice article on the Type 26 as a potential choice for the RCN. I'm sure RCN personnel might very well prefer it as the future CSC but as we all know, what they prefer means squat if the pollies aren't on board. Given the budget conflict between Britain's MOD and BAE, the Type 26 export potential seems threatened, more so for Australia than Canada, as your replacement schedule is likely more imminent.

 

[t68]

Canadian Defence Review (Vol.22/issue4) has an nice article on the Type 26 as a potential choice for the RCN. I'm sure RCN personnel might very well prefer it as the future CSC but as we all know, what they prefer means squat if the pollies aren't on board. Given the budget conflict between Britain's MOD and BAE, the Type 26 export potential seems threatened, more so for Australia than Canada, as your replacement schedule is likely more imminent.

I believe that to be the case here, as we saw with the AWD project, what defence prefer and what goverment provides can be different in terms of perceived needs.


There seems to be a gulf between political and industry needs compared to defence needs, if they align all the good but this one seems to be pitacl first because of past decision's

 

[Joe Black]

Sycamore (Sydney).
Who thought of that name?
Ready for sea trials it seems
MB

The news is officially out today...

New Generation-Ready: Serco delivers Multi-role Aviation Training Vessel
22 September 2016
http://www.serco-ap.com.au/news-med...delivers-multi-role-aviation-training-vessel/

 

[alexsa]

Nothing written as a source, just talk to several navy pers and they all seem to say the same thing, T26 seems to be the consences, hence my comment on being the preferred choice.

So essentially you spoke to a couple of people with Naval affiliations and extrapolated the "RAN view" from that. The reason I question this is your statement is couched in a way that sounds definative based on a whole of navy view which is actually not the case.

I know staff who prefer the evolved F105 option as it minimise risk and delivers the capability. Others are keen on the T26 but are concerned about the fact construction has no yet started, however, I would never claim this was the Navy view.

 

[gf0012-aust]

I know staff who prefer the evolved F105 option as it mini smiles risk and delivers the capability. Others are keen on the T26 but are concerned about the fact construction has no yet started, however, I would never claim this was the Navy view.

nobody involved in the actual process is commenting anywhere....

I know of people directly involved with new subs and they have personal preference for the Astutes. It means diddly though as Astutes are not even in the consideration matrix

as there is no tender eval matrix even drawn up for the skimmers - it means even less when there is chatter, even if they are service identities.

 

[Volkodav]

nobody involved in the actual process is commenting anywhere....

I know of people directly involved with new subs and they have personal preference for the Astutes. It means diddly though as Astutes are not even in the consideration matrix

as there is no tender eval matrix even drawn up for the skimmers - it means even less when there is chatter, even if they are service identities.

Sounds about right, the team that wrote the "competitive evaluation process" for SEA 1000 wasn't even formed until after the former PM pulled it out of his backside to stave off leadership issues, now it's apparently something that has existed forever. I actually wonder how many of the detrimental aspects of government procurement in general owe their existence to similar reactionary responses to internal party issues rather than political, economic, or even defence priorities?

 

[gf0012-aust]

I actually wonder how many of the detrimental aspects of government procurement in general owe their existence to similar reactionary responses to internal party issues rather than political, economic, or even defence priorities?

B1 is the classic example (B1 as in the weapon system - not the skimmer)

 

[Volkodav]

B1 is the classic example (B1 as in the weapon system - not the skimmer)

B1 as in B-1B, otherwise you have lost me? Not familiar with it, though I suspect it may be a "doh" moment if you expand on it.

 

[gf0012-aust]

B1 as in B-1B, otherwise you have lost me? Not familiar with it, though I suspect it may be a "doh" moment if you expand on it.

PM again on its way...

 

[alexsa]

PM again on its way...

You have me flummoxed as well and would love to understand what you mean.

 

[Milne Bay]

You have me flummoxed as well and would love to understand what you mean.

Ditto.
Bill and Ben perhaps?
MB

 

[Joe Black]

Sounds about right, the team that wrote the "competitive evaluation process" for SEA 1000 wasn't even formed until after the former PM pulled it out of his backside to stave off leadership issues, now it's apparently something that has existed forever. I actually wonder how many of the detrimental aspects of government procurement in general owe their existence to similar reactionary responses to internal party issues rather than political, economic, or even defence priorities?

And I am still puzzled how long will it take the CEP to complete for the Sea1180 OPV too. Should have some sort of announcement soon and for ACS to start the design work ASAP so that the build can happen once AWD ship 3 assembly is near completion.