Royal New Zealand Air Force

[MrConservative]

I agree with your summing up of the rise in the standing, both politically and with the public of defence in general, but for the politicians to agree to adding a extra capability to defence 10 years down the track is unlikely, unless there is some political advantage to do so.

Right now they ARE planning to fund the extra capability. That is what the whole DWP16 was about. ISR/Networked capability is the core of this and will take a significant lump of the at present $20B earmarked - I have had it mentioned around 25% will go into that space alone. The governments political advantage to the voter is not their only consideration. Stable long term government has significant agenda's other than voters. In particular its external political and national security relationships are now at the fore to a greater degree than for generations. In 2016 a clear majority of voters also no longer swallow the benign strategic environment BS they did 15 years ago - focus groups now report quite the opposite. In 2017 to be weak on national security will more likely turn General Election voters off.

 

[kiwi in exile]

A paper from Second Line of Defense that looks at the P8 Poseidon / MQ4C Triton combination. It explains how different the operation methodology of the P8 is to that of the P3 Orion, its contemporaries and its predecessors. In the NZ context it shows how we will have to change our way of working and adopt something akin to the RAAF Plan Jericho in order to be able to utilise the new technology to its fullest capabilities, not just in the P8 but right across the NZDF.

"system of systems" etc etc. Kinda feel this sort of talk has been part of the P8 (and F35s) PR since day 1. I think we are a wee way off enacting something like Plan Jerico in the sense we dont have the same capabilities, platform numbers, or orentation etc. Think of all the hype around the 'revolutionary" idea of the JATF which was basically training to use the Canterbury as it was designed to be used.

I chuckled a bit when i read the discussion of hypersonics. We are not far off from this and a currently testing out our latest 'new' missile
NZDF to test out new missile | NZNews | Newshub

 

[MrConservative]

"system of systems" etc etc. Kinda feel this sort of talk has been part of the P8 (and F35s) PR since day 1. I think we are a wee way off enacting something like Plan Jerico in the sense we dont have the same capabilities, platform numbers, or orentation etc. Think of all the hype around the 'revolutionary" idea of the JATF which was basically training to use the Canterbury as it was designed to be used.

I chuckled a bit when i read the discussion of hypersonics. We are not far off from this and a currently testing out our latest 'new' missile
NZDF to test out new missile | NZNews | Newshub

Kind of feeling seems to be an assumption based without facts.

The NZDF are already acting on projects (if you had bothered to digest my post previously - outlining some of those projects or took the time to find out for your self) within this sphere that are synergetic to what the US, UK and ADF are evolving. The quip about platform numbers misses the whole point about distributed control nodes.

Just because the NZG in the past chose to deselect some major Defence capabilities 15 years ago does not necessarily allow for the invalid assumption that all they now and in the future do is rubbish and its people do not have the ability to work in complex systems management.

 

[Rob c]

Right now they ARE planning to fund the extra capability. That is what the whole DWP16 was about. ISR/Networked capability is the core of this and will take a significant lump of the at present $20B earmarked - I have had it mentioned around 25% will go into that space alone. The governments political advantage to the voter is not their only consideration. Stable long term government has significant agenda's other than voters. In particular its external political and national security relationships are now at the fore to a greater degree than for generations. In 2016 a clear majority of voters also no longer swallow the benign strategic environment BS they did 15 years ago - focus groups now report quite the opposite. In 2017 to be weak on national security will more likely turn General Election voters off.

I totally agree with your summing up of the political/defence situation and said that before. I however have seen to many well planned defence projects which seem to have political support get cut back or scrapped, often at the last minute. If the P3 replacement deal includes an other platform, or it is ordered at around the same time frame then I think the odd's are good. In other words if it all happens in a similar time frame. Once the time frame spreads out then anything can happen and I would not hold my breath on it happening (mind you at my age that is not a good idea anyway.)

 

[htbrst]

If some Chinese salespeople are to be believed, NZ is vaguely interested in purchasing Chinas new AG600 amphibious martitime patrol aircraft.

Closing the loop from Chinese reports that the RNZAF were (*cough* )interested in purchasing the AVIC AG600 last year - the plane has now been rolled out:

China unveils the world's largest amphibious aircraft AG600 | Daily Mail Online

 

[ASSAIL]

Closing the loop from Chinese reports that the RNZAF were (*cough* )interested in purchasing the AVIC AG600 last year - the plane has now been rolled out:

China unveils the world's largest amphibious aircraft AG600 | Daily Mail Online

Back to the future! In the 1950s my cousins used to fly from Auckland to Sydney on the old Sandringham flying boats

 

[kiwipatriot69]

Perhaps our pacific island neighbours would see a use for them , but seriously, RNZAF?

 

[MrConservative]

Perhaps our Pacific Island neighbours would see a use for them, but seriously, RNZAF?

They do make sense in a Pacific context

The ShinMaywa US-2 of the JMSDF was offered to India. Seems to have stalled due to bureaucratic procedures on the Indian end leaving the Japanese to be gunshy of their commitment on the production end. If this kind of capability was in fact required for the NZDF, the Japanese version would likely be more politically digestible than the Chinese or Russian offerings.

Performance of the State-of-the-Art US-2 | Aircraft | ShinMaywa Industries, Ltd.

Based on the Indian offer the Shinmaywa is around $90m

 

[t68]

Perhaps our pacific island neighbours would see a use for them , but seriously, RNZAF?

It would actually make sence in a SAR environment, down pilots and seafarers etc, could it be a contender for RAAF CSAR instead of V22?

 

[MrConservative]

Back to the future! In the 1950s my cousins used to fly from Auckland to Sydney on the old Sandringham flying boats

ASSAIL here is a great Doco about the old Qantas Flying Boats in Australia.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=305OVtcvJn8

There was also the Auckland - Taihiti Coral Route during that era for the well healed. Back in the days when air travel was 1st class all the way.

 

[old faithful]

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Grumman_G-73_Mallard used to fly in fly out of pearl farms on one Pearl Aviations Turbo Mallards, very useful aircraft for this part of the world.

 

[ASSAIL]

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Grumman_G-73_Mallard used to fly in fly out of pearl farms on one Pearl Aviations Turbo Mallards, very useful aircraft for this part of the world.

I was instrumental in getting the three aircraft for Paspaley when I was the GM Ops there. They were all piston engines when bought and we converted all three to turbines, two were done in house and the third in Perth. Magnificent planes which can carry 10 tons of freight or 17 passengers.
Landing on water and being able to take off again is a truly fantastic experience.

 

[40 deg south]

NZDF - Testing NZDF Combat Capability at RIMPAC

Interesting comments about the training range at RIMPAC.

Also surprised to learn NZ hasn't dropped a torpedo in over 5 years.

 

[vonnoobie]

I was instrumental in getting the three aircraft for Paspaley when I was the GM Ops there. They were all piston engines when bought and we converted all three to turbines, two were done in house and the third in Perth. Magnificent planes which can carry 10 tons of freight or 17 passengers.
Landing on water and being able to take off again is a truly fantastic experience.

Small correction but Im pretty sure the 10 ton of frieght is a typo, actually just under 2.3 tons but still quite capable.

 

[kiwi in exile]

NZDF - Testing NZDF Combat Capability at RIMPAC

Interesting comments about the training range at RIMPAC.

Also surprised to learn NZ hasn't dropped a torpedo in over 5 years.

heres a link to a vid I posted in another thread
https://www.dvidshub.net/video/47541...ns-rimpac-2016

 

[ASSAIL]

Small correction but Im pretty sure the 10 ton of frieght is a typo, actually just under 2.3 tons but still quite capable.

Oops thanks Von, misplaced the decimal point, 1 ton plus pax

 

[vonnoobie]

Oops thanks Von, misplaced the decimal point, 1 ton plus pax

No worries. In any case an aircraft to fill that role would be an invaluable asset for almost any South Pacific/Oceanic nation. Hell for Australia alone the RAAF, RAN, RAA, Royal Flying doctors service, custom's, various fisheries and police forces could all make use of them (Quite possibly dozens of aircraft between them if the fundswhere available).

Big market for such an aircraft in the region if we could just get the price down.

 

[Volkodav]

No worries. In any case an aircraft to fill that role would be an invaluable asset for almost any South Pacific/Oceanic nation. Hell for Australia alone the RAAF, RAN, RAA, Royal Flying doctors service, custom's, various fisheries and police forces could all make use of them (Quite possibly dozens of aircraft between them if the fundswhere available).

Big market for such an aircraft in the region if we could just get the price down.

Even a firebomber/SAR variant able to swing roles as required. Such a type could make an interesting complement to the C-27J in the tactical lift role. Actually the other thought is special forces deployment and support.

 

[vonnoobie]

Even a firebomber/SAR variant able to swing roles as required. Such a type could make an interesting complement to the C-27J in the tactical lift role. Actually the other thought is special forces deployment and support.

Australia did make quite a bit of use out of the Catalina's back in WWII for special forces mission's, along with SAR, mine laying, ASuW etc etc.

Seaplanes are quite simply a very versatile multiuse platform that has been far too over looked since the end of WWII by most nations, Time I think to look at them again.

 

[John Fedup]

Viking acquired the rights to Bombardier's water bomber. It will be interesting to see what they can do to resurrect sales interest.