Royal Canadian Air Force (RCAF) News and Discussions

[gf0012-aust]

some oblique relevance although OT for Canada

https://theaviationist.com/2016/06/...e-completes-f-35b-tanker-trials-a-week-early/

 

[KiwiRob]

That's what I thought. I believe AirBus was going to have it built in a new plant which was to be in Alabama.

The plant was built and it's now assembling A320 series aircraft for the North American market..

 

[John Fedup]

Here's a good article comparing Denmark's acquisition to that of Canada's for a fighter replacement. Too bad junior will ignore it.
Liberal government’s fighter jet replacement process flawed, analyst argues | Ottawa Citizen

 

[vonnoobie]

Cant speak on the Danish review as I have no idea how they calculated it but for Canada with the situation there they should bite the bullet and just acquire a fleet similar in make up to Australia with 2 dozen SH's and a dozen Growlers, Gives large enough force to keep the RCAF capable while leaving room to acquire 3 dozen or more F-35's later on.

There is no 100% guarantee the F-35 will be fully functional when they say it will and Canada has just allowed it's current fighter force to age and deteriorate far too much. Damned if they do, Damned if they dont.

 

[ngatimozart]

Cant speak on the Danish review as I have no idea how they calculated it but for Canada with the situation there they should bite the bullet and just acquire a fleet similar in make up to Australia with 2 dozen SH's and a dozen Growlers, Gives large enough force to keep the RCAF capable while leaving room to acquire 3 dozen or more F-35's later on.

There is no 100% guarantee the F-35 will be fully functional when they say it will and Canada has just allowed it's current fighter force to age and deteriorate far too much. Damned if they do, Damned if they dont.

From what I understand the Danes are quite astute with their defence acquisitions which can be seen with their naval acquisitions such as the Iver Huitfeld frigates and Absalon class ships. They don't have a lot of money for defence so they have to use it wisely.

 

[John Fedup]

Cant speak on the Danish review as I have no idea how they calculated it but for Canada with the situation there they should bite the bullet and just acquire a fleet similar in make up to Australia with 2 dozen SH's and a dozen Growlers, Gives large enough force to keep the RCAF capable while leaving room to acquire 3 dozen or more F-35's later on.

There is no 100% guarantee the F-35 will be fully functional when they say it will and Canada has just allowed it's current fighter force to age and deteriorate far too much. Damned if they do, Damned if they dont.

Some are questioning when the crunch time comes for our Hornets and claim they can make it to 2023, perhaps to 2025 without additional upgrades. If this is true then the Liberal plan to buy via sole-sourcing some SHs now is merely a means to make a future F-35 buy more difficult. This will only work if they win a second mandate. If in fact our Hornets are done now then a SH or better yet Growler buy would be justified. If this happens, it will mean fewer F-35s if any.

 

[John Fedup]

From what I understand the Danes are quite astute with their defence acquisitions which can be seen with their naval acquisitions such as the Iver Huitfeld frigates and Absalon class ships. They don't have a lot of money for defence so they have to use it wisely.

Agreed, the article indicates the Danes did their homework on the F-35. There are many here who see the Iver Huitfeld as a good starting point for the RCN's future CSC ships.

 

[vonnoobie]

One question, what order slots does Canada have? ie: Do they have enough early slot's to get there full force or is it spread over a half decade or more?

 

[Novascotiaboy]

So now LM has stated that industrial opportunities of almost $1 billion are now at risk if Canada does not buy the F-35. Sorry I don't know how to link to the story but comments from an LM spokesperson have been noted on other sites. With so much of Canada's aviation business located in the greater Montreal area, PM Trudeaus home riding, there will likely be a very loud response from the businesses affected if the Boeing SH is bought as an interim fighter. Either way Junior is in a no win situation and is following in the tracks of a previous Liberal government ie. the EH 101 under Chrétien.

Is there a precedent in other countries of every defence purchase being thwarted or legal action taken if one brand or model is purchased over another?

 

[KiwiRob]

From what I understand the Danes are quite astute with their defence acquisitions which can be seen with their naval acquisitions such as the Iver Huitfeld frigates and Absalon class ships. They don't have a lot of money for defence so they have to use it wisely.

They have the money for it, what they don't have is a population that's interested in defense, a lot like NZ really. It's a small buy of F35's, 27 frames made even smaller because in the terms of the contract 5 have to remain based in the US, leaving them with an even smaller fleet, which is odd because Norway (wasted my tax nok) and bought 52 with a requirement for 4 to be based in the US.

 

[swerve]

Norway's physically much bigger, overflowing with oil money, & has a border with Russia, with no NATO allies near it.

 

[John Fedup]

So now LM has stated that industrial opportunities of almost $1 billion are now at risk if Canada does not buy the F-35. Sorry I don't know how to link to the story but comments from an LM spokesperson have been noted on other sites. With so much of Canada's aviation business located in the greater Montreal area, PM Trudeaus home riding, there will likely be a very loud response from the businesses affected if the Boeing SH is bought as an interim fighter. Either way Junior is in a no win situation and is following in the tracks of a previous Liberal government ie. the EH 101 under Chrétien.

Is there a precedent in other countries of every defence purchase being thwarted or legal action taken if one brand or model is purchased over another?

I don't think the civil aerospace firms in Quebec have much F-35 content. It is mostly speciality firms involved in component fabrication. It would be interesting to know the individual provincial F-35 contract percentages.

I only country that has a worse procurement record than Canada is perhaps India. Their problems have more to do with corruption (real or perceived) whereas ours are stupidity.

 

[John Fedup]

They have the money for it, what they don't have is a population that's interested in defense, a lot like NZ really. It's a small buy of F35's, 27 frames made even smaller because in the terms of the contract 5 have to remain based in the US, leaving them with an even smaller fleet, which is odd because Norway (wasted my tax nok) and bought 52 with a requirement for 4 to be based in the US.

My understanding is Denmark will buy 27 jets but the final 6 will only be bought if the agreed upon budget amount allows it. I assume the basing of some jets in the US is for initial training of pilots and service personnel as it is probably less expensive.

 

[John Fedup]

By the time Canada gets around to replacing our version of the P3, the CP140, I foresee a Bombardier solution involving the new C series aircraft which is in the same league as the B737. The systems used in the original as delivered CP140 were from the Lockheed S3. So integrating systems in an air frame shouldn't be too much of an issue and Canadian content and a political patronage package to Bombardier will be maintained. I say this because they haven't been able to sell their planes to the Canadian government for years and won't get the long awaited SAR contract that is due to be awarded by years end. The military preference has always been C27. Like NZ we fly, sail or drive our military hardware long past the expiry date ie. 52 year old Sea kings, 53 year old Hercs, 45 year old destroyers, 50 year old Snowbirds Tutor display aircraft, 30 year old cargo trucks. The list goes on.

I think the politics and feasibility will make a C- series MPA variant unlikely. The export potential would be zero as the cost compared to the P-8 would likely be higher and most "A" level MPA customers have already decided. The RCAF wants the P-8 and has no interest in the "Poseidon Lite", the MPA based on a Bombardier business jet. Junior may decide that's all they will get in the future (if anything). After all, just like the budget, sovereignty will look after itself according to junior!

 

[Novascotiaboy]

John

If the timelines being quoted for P8 assembly line shutdown are to be believed there is no way in hell that Junior will stump the cash in three years for P8.

It's taken over a decade for FWSAR. It's been two decades for Sea King replacement and it's going to be another five at least before they are all in service.

CP140s have been given life extensions until at least 2025 /30which has them in the air for almost 50 years.

Between NSPS, fighter replacement, and whatever else might come along our ability to pay will be stretched as some namby pamby libtard plan will always get in the way of real needs associated with the military of this country.

One can only hope that a change in leadership south of the border this fall forces Canada to think hard about its past of mooching off of its allies. 2% of GDP is never going to happen as a defence budget unless we end up at war. Given recent events with Russia and our planned return to a Cold War standoff by basing in Latvia one has to wonder what equipment will be given priority over existing programs in order to provide a minimum level of defence in the face of Russian units in nearby Kalingrad.

Thinking back a quarter century to our bases in Germany we have scrapped our SPG's, allowed our TOW under armour to fade away and today we have no organic SAM of any kind as I believe the ADATS are out of service along with the twin 35's.

Going to Latvia will require another round of ACAN style purchases to provide basic protection for our facilities and troops.

Sorry I went on a tangent but I just have so little faith in the beauracracy of this country and the Libtards that are in power to do the right thing militarily.

 

[swerve]

It's taken over a decade for FWSAR. It's been two decades for Sea King replacement and it's going to be another five at least before they are all in service.

Five decades before the Sea King replacements are all in service? :confused2

Given recent events with Russia and our planned return to a Cold War standoff by basing in Latvia one has to wonder what equipment will be given priority over existing programs in order to provide a minimum level of defence in the face of Russian units in nearby Kalingrad.

Errrr . . . Russian troops in Kaliningrad aren't the ones Latvia worries about. The Russian troops just over the eastern border in the main part of Russia are the big threat, not those in an enclave Latvia doesn't have a border with.

 

[Novascotiaboy]

Oops. Sorry. Took a quick look at a map and messed up.

Yes the Sea Kings entered Canadian service more than fifty years ago. They will likely be the last in service military Sea kings when they finally retire post 2023 when all the Cyclones are in service. If that really happens.

 

[John Fedup]

John

If the timelines being quoted for P8 assembly line shutdown are to be believed there is no way in hell that Junior will stump the cash in three years for P8.

It's taken over a decade for FWSAR. It's been two decades for Sea King replacement and it's going to be another five at least before they are all in service.

CP140s have been given life extensions until at least 2025 /30which has them in the air for almost 50 years.

Between NSPS, fighter replacement, and whatever else might come along our ability to pay will be stretched as some namby pamby libtard plan will always get in athe way of real needs associated with the military of this country.

One can only hope that a change in leadership south of the border this fall forces Canada to think hard about its past of mooching off of its allies. 2% of GDP is never going to happen as a defence budget unless we end up at war. Given recent events with Russia and our planned return to a Cold War standoff by basing in Latvia one has to wonder what equipment will be given priority over existing programs in order to provide a minimum level of defence in the face of Russian units in nearby Kalingrad.

Thinking back a quarter century to our bases in Germany we have scrapped our SPG's, allowed our TOW under armour to fade away and today we have no organic SAM of any kind as I believe the ADATS are out of service along with the twin 35's.

Going to Latvia will require another round of ACAN style purchases to provide basic protection for our facilities and troops.

Sorry I went on a tangent but I just have so little faith in the beauracracy of this country and the Libtards that are in power to do the right thing militarily.

I hear you friend! Many hear viewing the RCAF and RCN threads have no idea how fuc?ed up the electorate is here as well as the self serving pollies they elect. It is pretty pathetic that you and I have to favour a more or less flakey casino owner (no names as per mod request) winning the Nov US election to perhaps force a a better commitment from our pollies. Even if he wins, he has way more pressing priorities.

 

[John Fedup]

Oops. Sorry. Took a quick look at a map and messed up.

Yes the Sea Kings entered Canadian service more than fifty years ago. They will likely be the last in service military Sea kings when they finally retire post 2023 when all the Cyclones are in service. If that really happens.

Now that LM owns Sikorsky, a great sales inducement for promoting confidence in the F-35 would be a quick resolution and discount for the Cyclone....then again junior is a cement head so why bother?

 

[Novascotiaboy]

John

With a stated commitment to Latvia and potentially to an African deployment at the same time our meagre air transport capability will be stretched to the max trying to keep material moving. That last whitetail would be nice to have.

Haven't heard of any hardware commitments to either deployment but I can foresee Chinooks at least to the African deployment hopefully protected by INGRESS equipped Griffons.

Although not an Air Force topic one would assume an armour centric force of LAVs and Leopard IIs going to Latvia.