Royal Canadian Air Force (RCAF) News and Discussions

[gf0012-aust]

The other issue is the weapons included. Do you have an estimate of what percentage of the $244m might be for weapons in a basic fighter purchase?

I wouldn't even begin to attempt a finger pluck on that number... too many variables. you could go from an absolute holy roller with the works to the Indonesian model where you get none or try to swap commodities for weapons. (basically bartering!)

The Indian government's acceptance of only 50% for industrial offsets must be a realization that the IAF's concerns for new kit are critical, yes? Junior will demand 100% as per his election promise. Don't see that as being possible for any Euro vendor.

There's a move away from offsets with US companies as the track record has not been too flash. Ask the Finns

 

[swerve]

Yeah. If rumours be true, about the only firm that's really met its promises on offsets in recent years has been SAAB.

 

[John Fedup]

When one sees $hit like this, is it any wonder I fear the RCAF will follow the RNAF out of the fast jet business? This is all junior.:flaming

Keeping the CF-18 fleet flying beyond 2025 – is it possible? | Ottawa Citizen

 

[t68]

When one sees $hit like this, is it any wonder I fear the RCAF will follow the RNAF out of the fast jet business? This is all junior.:flaming

Keeping the CF-18 fleet flying beyond 2025 – is it possible? | Ottawa Citizen

I guess anything is possabile just how much money you want to throw at the problem, and the capabilty at the time. Going to be a lot a spare lying around soon.

If he is that determined not to have F35 and only bare minimum defence capabilty, buy either Gripen or Super Hornet.

There isn't a certain someone overthere chomping at the bit to make some sort of uber Hornet or recommending buying F111 from the boneyard is there?:dance



RAAF Hornet Centre Barrel program completed | Australian Aviation

 

[John Fedup]

I guess anything is possabile just how much money you want to throw at the problem, and the capabilty at the time. Going to be a lot a spare lying around soon.

If he is that determined not to have F35 and only bare minimum defence capabilty, buy either Gripen or Super Hornet.

There isn't a certain someone overthere chomping at the bit to make some sort of uber Hornet or recommending buying F111 from the boneyard is there?:dance



RAAF Hornet Centre Barrel program completed | Australian Aviation

Damn, don't give junior any ideas! Hopefully there are some export restrictions prohibiting OZ hornet scrap parts coming to Canada or the poor RCAF will be flying frigging Hornets for another generation.

 

[gf0012-aust]

Damn, don't give junior any ideas! Hopefully there are some export restrictions prohibiting OZ hornet scrap parts coming to Canada or the poor RCAF will be flying frigging Hornets for another generation.

Wholely managed by State Dept - AustGov can't do any direct transfers of FMS material even to parallel users.

 

[t68]

Damn, don't give junior any ideas! Hopefully there are some export restrictions prohibiting OZ hornet scrap parts coming to Canada or the poor RCAF will be flying frigging Hornets for another generation.

I was referring more towards spares with the USN fleet as their are quite a number of aircraft all ready sitting out at AMARC and roughly 300 aircraft still in service the USN/USMC.


Not sure how the RAAF are planning to retire the legacy Hornets in a block once F35A becomes FOC or as as units stand up. But if you do do it RAAF and Spanish birds might be the way to go as at least they have not had the controlled crash landings aboard carriers to deal with if that's any help or not. But seems like a waste of money to me.

 

[colay1]

O

I was referring more towards spares with the USN fleet as their are quite a number of aircraft all ready sitting out at AMARC and roughly 300 aircraft still in service the USN/USMC.


.

The US Navy and Marines are hard-pressed to keep their Vanilla Hornets in he air. They won't be in the mood to share their spares with the RCAF.

https://news.usni.org/2016/04/26/na...tfall-marines-still-struggling-to-fly-at-home
http://breakingdefense.com/2016/03/...wn-museum-f-18-for-spare-parts-how-bad-is-it/

 

[t68]

O

The US Navy and Marines are hard-pressed to keep their Vanilla Hornets in he air. They won't be in the mood to share their spares with the RCAF.

https://news.usni.org/2016/04/26/na...tfall-marines-still-struggling-to-fly-at-home
Marines Scrounge Yorktown Museum F-18 For Spare Parts; How Bad Is It? « Breaking Defense - Defense industry news, analysis and commentary

I don't think they will touch that option far too expensive, most probably make the F35 deal look cheap in-comparison.

Now this is just my personal opinion, the Canadian goverment can't do a Helen Clark the stratigic circumstance at far diffrent to the RNZAF. He has no choice but keep a air combat capabilty, but the choice of aircraft is a going concern, I believe the longer he delays the inevitable the more that F35 will prevail. I suspect that by 2018 if the Rhino line is still open he will buy 2x Sqaudrons worth of aircraft enough to enforce sorverign duties, the who ever get elected after its someone else problem hey.

 

[colay1]

If they achieve the projected FRP of US$80-85M then this only strengthens the position of the RCAF who are in he best position to know and who have wanted the F-35 all along. But will the politicians pay attention?

 

[Redlands18]

I don't think they will touch that option far too expensive, most probably make the F35 deal look cheap in-comparison.

Now this is just my personal opinion, the Canadian goverment can't do a Helen Clark the stratigic circumstance at far diffrent to the RNZAF. He has no choice but keep a air combat capabilty, but the choice of aircraft is a going concern, I believe the longer he delays the inevitable the more that F35 will prevail. I suspect that by 2018 if the Rhino line is still open he will buy 2x Sqaudrons worth of aircraft enough to enforce sorverign duties, the who ever get elected after its someone else problem hey.

Doesn't the RCAF have a responsibility to the NORAD alliance to maintain a capable share of the AD of North America. Sooner or later the Canadian government will cop a please explain how your going to maintain your share of responsibility from the White House.

 

[t68]

Doesn't the RCAF have a responsibility to the NORAD alliance to maintain a capable share of the AD of North America. Sooner or later the Canadian government will cop a please explain how your going to maintain your share of responsibility from the White House.

I don't think they will touch that option far too expensive, most probably make the F35 deal look cheap in-comparison.

Now this is just my personal opinion, the Canadian government can't do a Helen Clark the strategic circumstance at far different to the RNZAF. He has no choice but keep a air combat capability, but the choice of aircraft is a going concern, I believe the longer he delays the inevitable the more that F35 will prevail. I suspect that by 2018 if the Rhino line is still open he will buy 2x Squadrons worth of aircraft enough to enforce sovereign duties, the who ever get elected after its someone else problem hey.

yep that's one of the area I was alluding too as sovereign duty. I think they could get away with till mid 2020 hopefully ordering F35 about 2022 once the current PM is gone (finger crossed for JF sake)

 

[John Fedup]

Doesn't the RCAF have a responsibility to the NORAD alliance to maintain a capable share of the AD of North America. Sooner or later the Canadian government will cop a please explain how your going to maintain your share of responsibility from the White House.

Yes, Canada does have NORAD obligations. We have Arctic SAR and NATO obligations as well which we are failing at. NORAD AD is a good example of why the US should have allowed F-22 export to Canada. It is a true interceptor with excellent range but more importantly it would have been an easier sell to our leftwing public as the jet would be used for maintaining "Canadian sovereignty".

 

[John Fedup]

I don't think they will touch that option far too expensive, most probably make the F35 deal look cheap in-comparison.

Now this is just my personal opinion, the Canadian goverment can't do a Helen Clark the stratigic circumstance at far diffrent to the RNZAF. He has no choice but keep a air combat capabilty, but the choice of aircraft is a going concern, I believe the longer he delays the inevitable the more that F35 will prevail. I suspect that by 2018 if the Rhino line is still open he will buy 2x Sqaudrons worth of aircraft enough to enforce sorverign duties, the who ever get elected after its someone else problem hey.

I agree, the longer he delays plays well for an eventual F-35 purchase which is the opposite outcome he wanted. There won't be a partial SH buy, it will be all or nothing. Frankly 12-24 Growlers now and 40-50 F-35s later works for me.

 

[t68]

Yes, Canada does have NORAD obligations. We have Arctic SAR and NATO obligations as well which we are failing at. NORAD AD is a good example of why the US should have allowed F-22 export to Canada. It is a true interceptor with excellent range but more importantly it would have been an easier sell to our leftwing public as the jet would be used for maintaining "Canadian sovereignty".

Be carefull what you wish for nfloorl:

Congress looks into cost of producing new F-22 Raptors - CNNPolitics.com


Would be interesting to see how it would pan out, I imagine the airframe design is still quite usefull but would they still use the same avionics etc

 

[John Fedup]

Be carefull what you wish for nfloorl:

Congress looks into cost of producing new F-22 Raptors - CNNPolitics.com


Would be interesting to see how it would pan out, I imagine the airframe design is still quite usefull but would they still use the same avionics etc

It is a wish with no chance, the line won't be restarted and even if it was the export ban is still in place. Hopefully by 2020-2025, there will be a F-35 acquision preferrably by a government that doesn't include junior.

 

[gf0012-aust]

Be carefull what you wish for nfloorl:

Congress looks into cost of producing new F-22 Raptors - CNNPolitics.com


Would be interesting to see how it would pan out, I imagine the airframe design is still quite usefull but would they still use the same avionics etc

there's a whole pile of logical and engineering issues around why it just doesn't make sense

but, unfort across nations, logic seems to have the back row sea when emotion and marketing knocks on politicians doors.

 

[John Fedup]

but, unfort across nations, logic seems to have the back row sea when emotion and marketing knocks on politicians doors.

Especially in Canada, sadly.

 

[John Fedup]

This story has yet to be confirmed. The Liberal government will make a Superhornet purchase prior to making a decision on the F-35.

Liberals planning to buy Super Hornet fighter jets before making final decision on F-35s, sources say

 

[Delta204]

This story has yet to be confirmed. The Liberal government will make a Superhornet purchase prior to making a decision on the F-35.

Liberals planning to buy Super Hornet fighter jets before making final decision on F-35s, sources say

Makes the recent comments from our def minister on the suddenly "urgent" need to replace legacy hornets make sense now... very interested to know what the details are - no doubt Boeing has been working the new government hard since the election.