Royal Air Force [RAF] discussions and updates

[ASSAIL]

this latest report on the propeller gearbox cracking problems experienced in the A 400 must be of real concern for the RAF and other customers. The Hercs can do just so much.

Latest Engine Problem May Impact Airbus A400M Delivery Plans
IIRC they had major issues with the gearbox about five years ago. I think that it may have been similar too.

 

[John Fedup]

Had Boeing doubled or tripled the whitetail production run, I wonder how many pending A400M orders would be at risk of being cancelled? As Boeing had to be aware of some of the problems, IMHO, they pulled the plug a little early.

 

[t68]

Had Boeing doubled or tripled the whitetail production run, I wonder how many pending A400M orders would be at risk of being cancelled? As Boeing had to be aware of some of the problems, IMHO, they pulled the plug a little early.

In the short term I agree they may have sold extra, Boeing would have done there due dilligence in order to minimise risk to the company, but on the other hand a lot of these A400M will replace C130 fleets as the cost per hour will be greater for C17 more so when they use them in the unimproved tactical arena


I also believe RAF/RNZAF/RCAF errored in not getting in quick enough for the remaining white tails when they had a chance, also would have liked to see the RAAF have a fleet of 12 airframes as our airframe hours would be getting chewed up as long haul is the rule not the exception.

 

[John Fedup]

I also believe RAF/RNZAF/RCAF errored in not getting in quick enough for the remaining white tails when they had a chance, also would have liked to see the RAAF have a fleet of 12 airframes as our airframe hours would be getting chewed up as long haul is the rule not the exception.

I agree. Canada, should have at least 8 and given the current government's reluctance to use hard support for our allies in the fight against ISIL (withdrawing CF-18 Hornets), extra transport would be welcome for this and general NATO needs. In NZ's case, like Canada, the bread and butter brigade has cornered the funding so they missed their chance on a couple of whitetails. Too bad Boeing was so aggressive in off loading C-17s whitetails to the ME as they would have been eventually bought by nations that would really put them to work. Perhaps LM is rethinking the C-130J and how it could be enhanced.

 

[swerve]

Had Boeing doubled or tripled the whitetail production run, I wonder how many pending A400M orders would be at risk of being cancelled? As Boeing had to be aware of some of the problems, IMHO, they pulled the plug a little early.

Not many, I think. The biggest customers specified exactly what they wanted in terms of performance, & the A400M matches what they asked for. The French, for example, pointed out that in Mali, they could have delivered troops & their equipment to where they'd fight, while C-17s had to land several hundred km away, & a lot of equipment had to be moved overland from there because it wouldn't fit in a Transall or C-130.

I don't see them discarding that - what they wanted & asked for - because of a fixable technical problem.

Also, there's the little point about where A400M is built: the jobs are in the main customer countries. The politics of dumping it are poisonous.

 

[KiwiRob]

I believe there is still a single whitetail left without a home, nobody appears to have put there hands up for it, which suggests Boeing where right to close down the line.

 

[John Fedup]

I believe there is still a single whitetail left without a home, nobody appears to have put there hands up for it, which suggests Boeing where right to close down the line.

I believe it belongs to Qatar and is in Texas waiting final preparation. If it isn't, the RCAF should buy it immediately.

 

[ngatimozart]

I believe there is still a single whitetail left without a home, nobody appears to have put there hands up for it, which suggests Boeing where right to close down the line.

I am not sure whether it is homeless or not, but I agree Boeing were right in closing the line. They were originally going to do 13 whitetails, but used the last three for spares, so if there was such a demand they would have built whitetails 11 - 13.

 

[swerve]

Yes. The cost of keeping the line open but idle, ready for more orders, would have meant putting the price up considerably for any more aircraft ordered, which would have put more orders at risk. You can't rely on India deciding to put in an order after the line's closed.

 

[Vulcan]

Big financial risk for Boeing if they kept the line active with nobody looking to buy. My guess is they had negotiations far enough under way for the so-called 'white tails' that from a commercial perspective they were effectively bought already.

 

[ngatimozart]

Apparently the 'maingate' final approval decision for the acquisition of nine Boeing P8 MPA is imminent. I thought that the decision had already been made, but apparently not.

 

[40 deg south]

Apparently the 'maingate' final approval decision for the acquisition of nine Boeing P8 MPA is imminent. I thought that the decision had already been made, but apparently not.

British Officials Trumpet Apache, P-8 Deals Amid Post-Brexit Fears

It has now!

 

[ngatimozart]

British Officials Trumpet Apache, P-8 Deals Amid Post-Brexit Fears

It has now!

Thanks. Just caught up. Related to the RAF P8 acquisition, there are apparently 11 RAF Seedcorn personnel currently serving at USN NAS Jacksonville learning to operate the P8.

There is also talk of the RAF and RN pooling some F35 weapons with the USMC, subject to sensitivities on some weapons in national inventories.

British officials are mulling over the idea of operating a mixed F35A/B fleet.

“What we will do as we go forward into the next SDSR is look at the force mix,” said Air Commodore Linc Taylor, the Royal Air Force officer responsible for delivery of the British F-35 program. ... “There is an absolute benefit to maximizing combat air power with interoperability with Typhoon and the capability from the [aircraft] carrier. We will look at all of those options as we go forward into the next SDSR,” Taylor said to reporters at RIAT. ... “The F-35A offers you a greater range and greater payload. There may be space for an 'A' variant so we will look at 'A' and 'B's in the future, but not the 'C's,” Taylor said. “The F-35 and Typhoon have complimentary qualities but the Typhoon is not low-observable, it can’t get to where the F-35 can get to."

 

[StobieWan]

That's good news all around, 9 P8 plus a solid decision on Apache (there were ruminations about re-using the WAH-64's but that would put us into another orphan platform which we don't need.)

 

[swerve]

...
British officials are mulling over the idea of operating a mixed F35A/B fleet.

RAF officers . . . think of this as someone from a particular interest group saying what they'd like. The RN will respond with reminders about the logistical & training advantages of a single type, the flexibility of every aircraft being available for both land-based & carrier operations, & might drop hints about it being silly to spend billions on two great big carriers if we're not going to make sure that we have enough aircraft to fill 'em both to the brim in an emergency..

 

[Sellers]

Hi all,

I wondered what people thoughts were of the RAFs deployment to FPDA exercises, japan and s korea.

A peace time force of x4 typhoon, supported by c17, voyager etc seems a decent effort to me when concurrent ops such as the below are considered.

Shader x8 tornado, x6 typhoon, sentinel, sentry, voyager, airseeker.
Falklands x4 typhoon, voyager
Uk defence x8 typhoon, voyager

Especially with another deployment to eastern europe coming up in Romania, with defence cuts in mind the RAF seems in reasonable health.

Clearly, were not a major player in the far east but the continued ability to be active out of areas is a huge asset for the uk, and is demostrative to our allies and enemies.

Cheers Sellers

 

[t68]

RAF officers . . . think of this as someone from a particular interest group saying what they'd like. The RN will respond with reminders about the logistical & training advantages of a single type, the flexibility of every aircraft being available for both land-based & carrier operations, & might drop hints about it being silly to spend billions on two great big carriers if we're not going to make sure that we have enough aircraft to fill 'em both to the brim in an emergency..

Was just thinking that, if an A variant gets the go ahead would that then be the push to get the boom on the tanker aircraft?

 

[John Fedup]

Was just thinking that, if an A variant gets the go ahead would that then be the push to get the boom on the tanker aircraft?

IIRC, the boom refueling provides a faster fuel transfer which is clearly an advantage for refueling larger aircraft like P-8s or C-17s not not so much for fighters. As for going with two JSF variants, I don't think the extra range of the "A" offsets the advantages of maximizing the commonalities of the fleet not to mention having RAF fighters that can be deployed to the QEs if need be. I would like to think there is a future upgrade to allow the boom refueling system for the "B" at some point or better yet a dual mode.

 

[swerve]

Yes, not so much for fighters because the rate at which relatively small aircraft such as fighters can accept fuel is limited, & in many (most? all?) cases booms can transfer it faster than they can take it. I think that the fastest hoses (some are much slower) can deliver as fast as yer average fighter can take it nowadays.

Both hoses & booms are much faster than when the US SAC wanted booms to get fuel into its bombers at a good rate.

Dual mode has obvious advantages, but cost/benefit? Takes space (OK on big aircraft) & adds weight & complexity.

 

[t68]

But would the "A" be a replacement for Tornado or tranche 1 Typhoons eventually say a mix of 96 "B" and 42 "A"