Royal Australian Navy Discussions and Updates

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ngatimozart

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I'm not sure they do, they have a manual blade folding system, but depending on space, I'm not sure they can remove the rotors below deck... Removing the rotors by crane every time you wanted to hangar them would be an extremely inefficient process...

The Chooks like all other Army aircraft have manual blade folding system. No automatic system is available, that I can find... :)
I presumed from looking at the photos in the article. I agree removing the rotors is an onerous and highly inefficient system when striking the chooks below and that's what I thought when I saw the photos.
 

vonnoobie

Well-Known Member
Well it can't be a height issue in regards to the blades and there removal considering the blades flex downwards and the points the blades are connected to are still left attached in the pictures. Where they doing it as standard operations or was it part of onboard maintenance training?
 

ADMk2

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Well it can't be a height issue in regards to the blades and there removal considering the blades flex downwards and the points the blades are connected to are still left attached in the pictures. Where they doing it as standard operations or was it part of onboard maintenance training?
Handling trials. Finding out what it's actually like when you have to remove the rotors and move the aircraft around the ship. As I said earlier, I'm not sure the space is available to remove them, below deck.
 

oldsig127

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aussienscale

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Trackmaster

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Such a pity the 22's are almost twice the cost ! They would be a very good fit indeed with our evolution into Amphibious ops.

http://www.armada.mde.es/ArmadaPort...SPREY-JCI-INGLES_en/foto-2//imagen&scale=none

Does not look like the price is coming down any time soon either, but at least the operating costs have come down to a reasonable level

Cheers
And then there's the CH53K.

Lots of folding rotor capacity there, but of course another helicopter type. It'll be interesting to see if the Super Stallion is taken on-board during the deployment for RIMPAC later this year.
 

aussienscale

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jakeavery

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The navy will be getting the same uniform as the army and air force, it will be called the Maritime Multi-cam Pattern Uniform. DCNU will be replaced in late 2017 pending on trial of this new uniform. I can't post the link though because I'm new.
 

t68

Well-Known Member
While the start date for construction of the T26 frigate slides further into the future...

Type 26 Frigate Production Approval Date Revealed in Letters Release

the sixth Italian FREMM begins sea trials.

Italian Navy Sixth FREMM ITS Luigi Rizzo Begins Sea Trials

I can't help but wonder if the lack of a working product is going to be a severe handicap to BAE's chances of winning the Australian contract.

That's a delay in UK production, if the design is signed off in time we could in theory build first of class. Not like the UK was building them for us we will just be the guinea pigs and UK could oversee for lesson learned.
 

hauritz

Well-Known Member
That's a delay in UK production, if the design is signed off in time we could in theory build first of class. Not like the UK was building them for us we will just be the guinea pigs and UK could oversee for lesson learned.
I don't think this will affect the chances for the type 26 being selected.

As was demonstrated with the selection of the new subs there is a willingness to buy straight off the drawing board. I think that they will be looking at capability first and this may well give the type 26 the edge over its competitors.
 

gf0012-aust

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As was demonstrated with the selection of the new subs there is a willingness to buy straight off the drawing board.
nope, it was a downselect, not based on any physical drawing or artifact


I think that they will be looking at capability first and this may well give the type 26 the edge over its competitors.
if its a downselect issue, then its not about capability being high on the selection matrix
 

ASSAIL

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This Weekend Oz has a Defence Special Report lift out and one column that peaked my curiosity regards the CMS upgrades for the AWDs by James Mugg.

The IIP allocates between $4bn -$5bn to upgrade the CMS between 2017 - 2028.
He list examples of costs from both the USN AB and the JMSDF Atago upgrade programmes, basically upgrading from Baseline 7.1 to 9, replacing radars (SPY 1 to SPY 6 ) and, fitting a BMD capability and compares that cost with the allocated IIP funds. His conclusion is that the programme has allocated double the funds required and is intrigued at the result.

I can't link the the column but would love to here comments from those with knowledge.
 

StingrayOZ

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This Weekend Oz has a Defence Special Report lift out and one column that peaked my curiosity regards the CMS upgrades for the AWDs by James Mugg.

The IIP allocates between $4bn -$5bn to upgrade the CMS between 2017 - 2028.
He list examples of costs from both the USN AB and the JMSDF Atago upgrade programmes, basically upgrading from Baseline 7.1 to 9, replacing radars (SPY 1 to SPY 6 ) and, fitting a BMD capability and compares that cost with the allocated IIP funds. His conclusion is that the programme has allocated double the funds required and is intrigued at the result.
I haven't read it, will have to go find it.

It may be that Australia has a different approach to the US/Japan upgrades.

If we want to go crystal balling, I don't believe 3 ships offer a useful/viable BMD capability (again flagged in previous WP) in of itself. If we were to have 6 AWD's with BMD then that would be a much more significant and useful capability.

But it could just be a costings feature, with Australia's typical full/life cost budget.

I wonder if we will get any clarification, with elections on and all that.
 

Oberon

Member
This Weekend Oz has a Defence Special Report lift out and one column that peaked my curiosity regards the CMS upgrades for the AWDs by James Mugg.

The IIP allocates between $4bn -$5bn to upgrade the CMS between 2017 - 2028.
He list examples of costs from both the USN AB and the JMSDF Atago upgrade programmes, basically upgrading from Baseline 7.1 to 9, replacing radars (SPY 1 to SPY 6 ) and, fitting a BMD capability and compares that cost with the allocated IIP funds. His conclusion is that the programme has allocated double the funds required and is intrigued at the result.

I can't link the the column but would love to here comments from those with knowledge.
Could it also include the cost of fitting SM6 missiles to go with the BMD capability?
 

Volkodav

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Or, thinking outside the square here, an extra three ship sets for three of the nine new frigates. This could especially be the case if the Navantia option was seen as the best option.
 

Oberon

Member
Or, thinking outside the square here, an extra three ship sets for three of the nine new frigates. This could especially be the case if the Navantia option was seen as the best option.
True. But it's not much use having the gear to detect and track a ballistic missile if you don't have the means to shoot it down.:hul
 

Volkodav

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True. But it's not much use having the gear to detect and track a ballistic missile if you don't have the means to shoot it down.:hul
Its been done before, although I thought we were already getting SM-6 and it was SM-3 we needed for BMD. That said both SM-6 and ESSM (especially the active Block II version) are intended to be part of the USN terminal BMD solution to counter the DF-21 area denial weapon.

I recall an editorial in one of the Australian defence magazines several years ago, before steel was cut on the AWD, that suggested we had left it too late to buy AEGIS as better systems and platforms were just around the corner and that it may have been smarter to invest in simpler, more affordable replacements for the FFGs (possibly also instead of FFGUP) making AWD and BMD part of the Anzac replacement in the 2020s, as a more effective, lower risk way forward. The thinking was get shipbuilding back up to speed following the long break in orders between ANZAC and the new ships, then worry about BMD once the tech was more mature.

I have possibly misremembered the entire gist of the piece but there were quite a few articles in the 90s and early 2000s predicting issues relating to block obsolescence, the failure to order new ships and the loss of not just shipbuilding skills but the skills to operate the required numbers of advanced warships following the cuts and reorganisations of the early 90s, let alone the deeper ones of the late 90s. For instance the biggest risk with the corvettes / OPCs to replace the Fremantle Class PBs was the lack of sufficient PWOs.
 

StingrayOZ

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Its been done before, although I thought we were already getting SM-6 and it was SM-3 we needed for BMD. That said both SM-6 and ESSM (especially the active Block II version) are intended to be part of the USN terminal BMD solution to counter the DF-21 area denial weapon.
BMD covers a broad range from shit that is literally right on top of you, to space intercepts, to getting things in boost phase. Ideally you would have the right weapon for each of those.

SM-6 is pretty capable. But SM-3 is in a completely different league. ESSM is going to be able to mop up a direct attack, but you are probably not going to want to rely on it as your only defence. Realistically SM-3 is the most likely to be the weapon that stops a BM, with the range and altitude.

Given the type of missiles we might want to stop, anything holding SM-3 is going to be a lot more useful and capable at controlling airspace. Anything with Sm-6 and ESSM, unless they are being directly engaged by the BM is just going to watch as it goes overhead.

If we were to build 3 more F-105 based ships, it would seem likely that we might pony up the money to make them full (and latest) Aegis ships. 3 AWD really isn't ideal, it never was. 4 is at least plausible (ala the 4th AWD which was planned but not funded in the beginning), 5 or 6 is reasonable (like Spain or pretty much any Aegis fleet). With 3 you just don't have the numbers to have an independent capability or full use of its advantages as you are basically talking continuous availability of 1 ship, which given the other issues (transit etc) is not going to be that useful for anyone.

Actually I would plan to make 6 more AWD based ships, have them with the latest baseline BMD setup. Two of the AWD are then sold to NZ (or say Singapore) replacing the Anzacs (or the Singapore corvettes). Perhaps NZ would take two, and Singapore would take one. Joint training, logistics and deployment with Australia leading that, but all three having significant roles to play.

That starts to have a larger impact, Japan only has 6 Aegis ships, so being able to bring another 9 (admittedly smaller ships) into the region shifts things much more significantly than Australia operating 3 far away independently.

It also ties Singapore/NZ and Australia much closer together. I know this idea would be highly controversial in Singapore, NZ and Australia, but its the sort of collaboration that should be happening within the region. The US would have to agree obviously, Im sure other players in the region will eithe feel left out or against it (sprinkle the 10 anzac hulls around).

Australia could then continue its rolling build, perhaps additional ships to NZ/Singapore (NZ takes 1 extra to make 3 and Singapore takes one more so 2), with the Anzacs going to various friendlies within the region.
 
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