Japanese Stealth Fighter

FOX229

FOX229

New Member
icekid said:
Looks aside. It has 3d thrust vectoring. (watch the video)



I think US has helped the Japanese.




This suggests my argument too.
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The article that shows relations of ATD-X (Shinshin) and Sukunk Works is in the following pics.

XF5-1 engine with 3 paddles
ttp://img147.imageshack.us/img147/3857/p1cv4.jpg
Engine test
ttp://img92.imageshack.us/img92/6339/p2os5.jpg
RCS test model
ttp://img139.imageshack.us/img139/1599/p3wn2.jpg
Shinshin and Skunk Works
ttp://img112.imageshack.us/img112/6531/p4xi7.jpg
Future schedule
ttp://img147.imageshack.us/img147/2828/p5cr9.jpg

Hayashi Fujio (retired JASDF Lt.General) is describing it in the article as follows.
It seems that the model which TDRI designed was only advised on Lockheed Martin.

Frank Capttio who is the person in charge in Skunk Works has seen the model of "Shinshin" .
He says to Iwasaki development department general manager, "Is this your baby? It's very beautiful airplane!"
Though he praised it, there were some incisive comment.
He said first, "The form of a canopy is strange."
However, I explained the in-line product was misappropriated to save costs, and he consented.
Furthermore, seeing body form carefully, he pointed out the point which poses a problem in respect of stealth performance partly, and taught even the remedy.
Surprisingly, they were almost the same as the problem which became clear by the test in France and was corrected after that.
Apparently, the god of Stealth seems to be able to see the electric wave.

icekid said:
I think it's better than F-22 what do you guys think?
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ATD-X is a technical demonstrator, and since a size is also smaller than F-22, it cannot be compared.
However, Smart Skin structure, 3D thrust-vectoring paddles, Fly By Light, etc. are seemed that ATD-X is excellent when each technology is compared with F-22.
 
S

Salty Dog

Defense Professional
Verified Defense Pro
FOX229 said:
However, Smart Skin structure, 3D thrust-vectoring paddles, Fly By Light, etc. are seemed that ATD-X is excellent when each technology is compared with F-22.
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3D TVC paddles is primitive TVC technology. Paddles are inefficient and not as effective as TVC nozzles. Kind of a cheaper solution, so paddles (or vanes) are used mainly in missiles (all the way back to the V-2). Just look at the videos and you should be able to tell.
 
Joe Black

Joe Black

Active Member
I do hope that Japan will turn this into a true 4.5 Gen stealth fighter that can go toe-to-toe with the chinese made J-20. They will sure find ready buyers if they can keep the cost on par with F-35 and armed the fighter with US made AIM-9X and AIM-120s.
 
O

old faithful

The Bunker Group
Verified Defense Pro
As I understand it, this Jap stealth demonstrator is not ever going to go into service in anything like its current configuration. It is purely a test bed for tech, the final product will be much bigger and make use of design from this demonstrator.
 
Vulcan

Vulcan

Member
old faithful said:
As I understand it, this Jap stealth demonstrator is not ever going to go into service in anything like its current configuration. It is purely a test bed for tech, the final product will be much bigger and make use of design from this demonstrator.
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I'd be hugely surprised if this was not the case.

LO tech is a highly technical area, it's not only a case of the materials/shaping but how sub components like antennas influence the design. It's a hugely expensive area to tackle, this will give them a flying aircraft to prove technologies.
 
MrConservative

MrConservative

Super Moderator
Staff member
Sandhi Yudha said:
Hontouni sugoi!
But Mr Conservative, what makes Gifu Hijoko so special?
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Osoreirimasu!

Couple of things. It borders Aichi where I lived for many years and thus fond of the place and it is the flight-test centre for the Japanese aviation industry. They have a fantastic Air Show there each Autumn.
 
Sandhi Yudha

Sandhi Yudha

Well-Known Member
MrConservative said:
Osoreirimasu!

Couple of things. It borders Aichi where I lived for many years and thus fond of the place and it is the flight-test centre for the Japanese aviation industry. They have a fantastic Air Show there each Autumn.
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Wakarimashita!
Thank you for your explanation.
 
John Fedup

John Fedup

The Bunker Group
HurricaneDitka said:
Who do you think those potential buyers are?
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India might be an option considering how screwed up their joint project with Russia is progressing. Mind you, dealing with Indian procurement is a nightmare (like Canada!). Just ask Dassault. Seriously, until they have something close to production this jet is solely a Japan jet. If it works, is priced right, and the F-35 doesn't live up to expectations then there will export opportunities. That's a lot of "ifs".
 
C

colay1

Member
India isn't keen on being a development customer IMO due to the heavy risk. AFAIK their intention originally was to acquire FGFA based on PAK FA prototypes that Russia would have substantially developed and tested, and adding their own enhancements. Later on they even relaxed their requirements and expressed willingness to acquire the same single-seat configuration as the Russian AF. I just don't see Japan as a partner.
 
John Fedup

John Fedup

The Bunker Group
colay1 said:
India isn't keen on being a development customer IMO due to the heavy risk. AFAIK their intention originally was to acquire FGFA based on PAK FA prototypes that Russia would have substantially developed and tested, and adding their own enhancements. Later on they even relaxed their requirements and expressed willingness to acquire the same single-seat configuration as the Russian AF. I just don't see Japan as a partner.
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I was under the impression the program was to be a joint effort but it seems to be mostly Russian. India wants local build for fighters with the foreign partner assuming responsibility for local screw-ups. This why the 120 joint production Rafale deal morphed into a 36 jet Dassault produced order. As for Japan partnering with India, you are right, the Indians would drive the Japanse nuts. However if the jet is capable then a straight purchase might be possible.
 
C

colay1

Member
John Fedup said:
I was under the impression the program was to be a joint effort but it seems to be mostly Russian. India wants local build for fighters with the foreign partner assuming responsibility for local screw-ups. This why the 120 joint production Rafale deal morphed into a 36 jet Dassault produced order. As for Japan partnering with India, you are right, the Indians would drive the Japanse nuts. However if the jet is capable then a straight purchase might be possible.
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It's not even certain if the Japanese will pursue the project to fruition and optimistically maybe they could have something operational by the 2030s...maybe. In the meantime the Indians have a very pressing need to field new jets yesterday.:)
 
Musashi_kenshin

Musashi_kenshin

Well-Known Member
colay1 said:
It's not even certain if the Japanese will pursue the project to fruition
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Nothing is certain. But if the project develops well (enough), they have every reason to. It will help keep their domestic defence industry going and therefore lessen their dependence on US production - and indeed US refurbishment/upgrading.
 
Vulcan

Vulcan

Member
Haavarla said:
Are there any sign that Japan will build another Demonstrator anytime soon, or at all?
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Depends how they have structured their development path. Some nations, like China, make lots of cheap and cheerful prototypes to test specific equipment sets in an incremental approach whereas others make very few with each being a pretty big technological leap.

Suspect Japan will be the latter, they'll have years worth of testing, experimentation and understanding to gain before it becomes worthwhile to make a new prototype.
 
T

Toblerone

Banned Member
I don't understand the people who are so interested or impressed by a simple demonstrator. It doesn't even look like a fighter aircraft. It is crazy how far ahead the USA are in this, many years ago they retired their first generation stealth aircraft, which was also battle-tested, other countries are still taking baby steps in 2016...

What is your point? Do you have a problem with a non white Anglo saxon protestant nation achieving a technological breakthrough for them. You are skating on extremely thin ice because of your attitude, so dial it back or face the ban hammer which is swinging like Damocoles sword.
 
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gf0012-aust

gf0012-aust

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The next person who writes a snippy comment is getting banned

read the forum rules carefully before posting from this point on

 
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