There is only ph interest in the alliance. Vietnam don't want to have bad relation with China. The rest mala tawian is not gonna antagonize China on this no gain too much to lose. As for help ph build up who's gonna pay for ? us taxpayer? Japan is not gonna directly involve in scs, they already has dispute with China
South China Sea News & Discussions, incl Spratly Islands News
- Thread starter ManilaBoy
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gazzzwp
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Look at what is at stake though. No one really knows the true purpose of these militarised reefs. They could well be for the purpose of evicting surrounding nations completely from their islands, and taking over the whole region restricting these nations to a minimum allowance in terms of oceanic territory.
You say who will pay? The price could be extremely heavy in the next 5 years if no action is taken.
China is after all investing heavily and as sure as God made little apples it will be expecting a return.
The Islands I think is to deter NATO headed by America and England
From what I read is that America made a law to help Taiwan if China attacked, a democracy. But that's just crazy law made by Americans, because Taiwan isn't really a country or a democracy. The laws made by the Americans and French are very hypocritical and selling arms to Taiwan to purposely make the Chinese fight.
The Chinese need the Islands just like Americans want Hawaii and the Monroe Doctrine. If it was me, I would use the Islands for Land Based GPS, UAV's, supply depots, Radar, and Jet Fighters.
China gives plenty of face to the Americans, but there will be a time around 2020 to 2030, then China will probably asked Taiwan to formally concede in the open and not under the Table. This will probably make the Americans lose a lot of Face, and America owes China 1 trillion dollars, and Japan another Trillion dollars.
Not to mention, that China has a space station, and wants to put a Chinese man on the moon, and most likely a Chinese moon base.
So there maybe chance that Taiwan might cause problems with the help of America. But the risk is low how ever, Taiwan doesn't stand a Chance, even with 40 year old French Jet fighters, and American missiles. If a Taiwan tries for independence, I think 1 Chinese smart bomb on a Air Base Run way, will probably scare the Taiwanese into surrendering. I think the war will be over in 1 to 3 months.
If the Americans really did try to help Taiwan, they will most likely ask for NATO alliance, just like in Iraq and the Middle East. So England and France and some European Countries might help the Americans, just like in Korea and Vietnam.
So the Islands in the South China Sea is really to safe guard China's security, in the time of war, just in Case if Taiwan causes any more problems.
America, will most likely try to get the NATO and Indian Navy and most likely Australian Navy, so they will have to sail through the South China Sea, up towards Taiwan.
From what I read is that America made a law to help Taiwan if China attacked, a democracy. But that's just crazy law made by Americans, because Taiwan isn't really a country or a democracy. The laws made by the Americans and French are very hypocritical and selling arms to Taiwan to purposely make the Chinese fight.
The Chinese need the Islands just like Americans want Hawaii and the Monroe Doctrine. If it was me, I would use the Islands for Land Based GPS, UAV's, supply depots, Radar, and Jet Fighters.
China gives plenty of face to the Americans, but there will be a time around 2020 to 2030, then China will probably asked Taiwan to formally concede in the open and not under the Table. This will probably make the Americans lose a lot of Face, and America owes China 1 trillion dollars, and Japan another Trillion dollars.
Not to mention, that China has a space station, and wants to put a Chinese man on the moon, and most likely a Chinese moon base.
So there maybe chance that Taiwan might cause problems with the help of America. But the risk is low how ever, Taiwan doesn't stand a Chance, even with 40 year old French Jet fighters, and American missiles. If a Taiwan tries for independence, I think 1 Chinese smart bomb on a Air Base Run way, will probably scare the Taiwanese into surrendering. I think the war will be over in 1 to 3 months.
If the Americans really did try to help Taiwan, they will most likely ask for NATO alliance, just like in Iraq and the Middle East. So England and France and some European Countries might help the Americans, just like in Korea and Vietnam.
So the Islands in the South China Sea is really to safe guard China's security, in the time of war, just in Case if Taiwan causes any more problems.
America, will most likely try to get the NATO and Indian Navy and most likely Australian Navy, so they will have to sail through the South China Sea, up towards Taiwan.
A possible conflict around Taiwan will probably escalate to include North Korea
I think if Americans went to war over Taiwan, then North Korea, will probably help China, because they probably have a defence pact. I read there are about 30,000 American troops in South Korea. But South Korea, has 1 million soldiers just like North Korea.
How ever I think with Chinese and Russian Air Cover, North Korea will be able to Overun South Korea very fast, and then make the 30,000 American troops surrender.
If Japan does anything with it's American loaned fleet, then they're asking for trouble. I don't think Japan really has any more balls to fight another North Korea and China, in the 21'st century.
China, has a hell alot of cruise missiles and DF21D, and plenty of modern jets, to sink the Entire Japanese Fleet, and destroy all the Air Bases. In the 1st Korean War with America, the only reason China and North Korea signed a treaty, was because of no air power, or no planes. The Americas was able to inflict heavy casualties to the North Koreans and Chinese with it's Air Power. But technically South Korea and North Korea are still at war, this means America is still technically at war too, with North Korea, and China.
But now it's 2015, and the 21'st Century, China has a Space Station, and really modern Air Power, and Cruise Missiles. Yeah, I think when Taiwan tries to declare Independence, it will be over for South Korea, as North Korea, will probably be given the green light by China to take over South Korea, and they will probably do it very fast, with Chinese Air Cover, and smart bombs.
This may very well, mean the end of America controlled Japan, and Guam too.
Yeah, I don't think America, really stands a Chance, without NATO. But then um, then Iran, and Russia might get involved if NATO decided to send ships.
I think if Americans went to war over Taiwan, then North Korea, will probably help China, because they probably have a defence pact. I read there are about 30,000 American troops in South Korea. But South Korea, has 1 million soldiers just like North Korea.
How ever I think with Chinese and Russian Air Cover, North Korea will be able to Overun South Korea very fast, and then make the 30,000 American troops surrender.
If Japan does anything with it's American loaned fleet, then they're asking for trouble. I don't think Japan really has any more balls to fight another North Korea and China, in the 21'st century.
China, has a hell alot of cruise missiles and DF21D, and plenty of modern jets, to sink the Entire Japanese Fleet, and destroy all the Air Bases. In the 1st Korean War with America, the only reason China and North Korea signed a treaty, was because of no air power, or no planes. The Americas was able to inflict heavy casualties to the North Koreans and Chinese with it's Air Power. But technically South Korea and North Korea are still at war, this means America is still technically at war too, with North Korea, and China.
But now it's 2015, and the 21'st Century, China has a Space Station, and really modern Air Power, and Cruise Missiles. Yeah, I think when Taiwan tries to declare Independence, it will be over for South Korea, as North Korea, will probably be given the green light by China to take over South Korea, and they will probably do it very fast, with Chinese Air Cover, and smart bombs.
This may very well, mean the end of America controlled Japan, and Guam too.
Yeah, I don't think America, really stands a Chance, without NATO. But then um, then Iran, and Russia might get involved if NATO decided to send ships.
This forum expects considered thought put into posts - it doesn't need internet or online wargaming standards of participation
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sure, ok, I'll try to get some intel,
I think American's are loosing alot of face, and maybe by 2020 to 2030, Taiwan will have to concede in the open, and then it will be the first time in history a democracy loosing, but how are they even a country?
You don't think North Korea is a ally of China? Who do you think did 9-11. NATO did 9-11, because they wanted to control the middle east.
If it's not a war game, what the hell do you think it is?
What are the Americans really going to do in public with NATO. It will be the first time after WW2, that NATO or America and England, and France, can't control East Asia anymore.
I think the island move is big, possibly as big for China, as the middle east is big for England and France and NATO.
I don't really know how the Americans or anyone else is going to deter China from building more islands outputs in the western pacific, without a regional war including North Korea, and Taiwan. Americans will loose South Korea, and possibly Japan.
This means China will continue to build more Islands.
China building as much Islands as they want, in the public shows a week and useless American western fleet. Who knows how long the Americans can stand this loss of face in the media.
America loosing the western pacific, It's like as big as the collapse of the Soviet Union. It's like if America took over the middle east including Iran.
This is going to be history. Who do you think is more scared to fight. China or America?
Yeah, I think China is on it's way to becoming a hyper super power. Science Technology, Military Economy, Influence. America will still be there, but not really there. Just removed to the Corner of the Atlantic Ocean, close to NATO, and Europe.
I don't think it's about any resources such as oil rigs, fishing rights, or that much shipping trade. I think it's really about stopping America and NATO.
Watch, China won't build any oil rigs. Then the islands are just bases for ships, and planes and for the military, it's not really related to the economy shipping that much.
Without good intel, what do you want me to say? Just to repeat google news?
I think American's are loosing alot of face, and maybe by 2020 to 2030, Taiwan will have to concede in the open, and then it will be the first time in history a democracy loosing, but how are they even a country?
You don't think North Korea is a ally of China? Who do you think did 9-11. NATO did 9-11, because they wanted to control the middle east.
If it's not a war game, what the hell do you think it is?
What are the Americans really going to do in public with NATO. It will be the first time after WW2, that NATO or America and England, and France, can't control East Asia anymore.
I think the island move is big, possibly as big for China, as the middle east is big for England and France and NATO.
I don't really know how the Americans or anyone else is going to deter China from building more islands outputs in the western pacific, without a regional war including North Korea, and Taiwan. Americans will loose South Korea, and possibly Japan.
This means China will continue to build more Islands.
China building as much Islands as they want, in the public shows a week and useless American western fleet. Who knows how long the Americans can stand this loss of face in the media.
America loosing the western pacific, It's like as big as the collapse of the Soviet Union. It's like if America took over the middle east including Iran.
This is going to be history. Who do you think is more scared to fight. China or America?
Yeah, I think China is on it's way to becoming a hyper super power. Science Technology, Military Economy, Influence. America will still be there, but not really there. Just removed to the Corner of the Atlantic Ocean, close to NATO, and Europe.
I don't think it's about any resources such as oil rigs, fishing rights, or that much shipping trade. I think it's really about stopping America and NATO.
Watch, China won't build any oil rigs. Then the islands are just bases for ships, and planes and for the military, it's not really related to the economy shipping that much.
bobby_77, Have a look at the forum - there is zero tolerance for posts that promote conspiracy theories, bet it 911, BigFoot or the face on mars.
cdxbow
Well-Known Member
Because it could. Might is right.
Because none of the neighbours is strong enough to oppose the PRC.
cdxbow
Well-Known Member
Natuna Islands standoff. - from Jakata Post Indonesia to Summon Chinese Ambassador Over Natuna Islands Standoff | Jakarta Globe
"Minister of Fisheries and Maritime Affairs Susi Pudjiastuti will summon the Chinese ambassador to Indonesia on Monday (21/03) over reports of a standoff between Chinese coast guards and Indonesian officials trying to capture a ship illegally fishing in Indonesian waters, although China says the incident happened in "a traditional Chinese fishing ground."
Susi said Indonesian officials were pursuing the ship Kway Fey 10078 at 2.15 p.m. on Saturday, for illegally fishing off the coast of Indonesia's Natuna islands as it attempted to flee to the contested South China Sea.
Three officials managed to climb on board and arrested a total of eight crew members, but a Chinese coast guard ship intervened and rammed the fishing ship back into the South China Sea."
Natuna Islands are a long way from the PRC, probably about the bottom of 'the nine dash line'. See att. pic.
I don't understand why the PRC wants to provoke Indonesia, as they have also done with Malaysia over trifles. There are bigger fish to fry in their SCS gambit, and here they are stirring up extra trouble with 2 countries who have been 'neutrals'.
"Minister of Fisheries and Maritime Affairs Susi Pudjiastuti will summon the Chinese ambassador to Indonesia on Monday (21/03) over reports of a standoff between Chinese coast guards and Indonesian officials trying to capture a ship illegally fishing in Indonesian waters, although China says the incident happened in "a traditional Chinese fishing ground."
Susi said Indonesian officials were pursuing the ship Kway Fey 10078 at 2.15 p.m. on Saturday, for illegally fishing off the coast of Indonesia's Natuna islands as it attempted to flee to the contested South China Sea.
Three officials managed to climb on board and arrested a total of eight crew members, but a Chinese coast guard ship intervened and rammed the fishing ship back into the South China Sea."
Natuna Islands are a long way from the PRC, probably about the bottom of 'the nine dash line'. See att. pic.
I don't understand why the PRC wants to provoke Indonesia, as they have also done with Malaysia over trifles. There are bigger fish to fry in their SCS gambit, and here they are stirring up extra trouble with 2 countries who have been 'neutrals'.
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cdxbow
Well-Known Member
I think they are clearly taking a strong line here. There are reports of them about to prosecute the crew. Apparently the PRC tried very hard to convince the Indonesians not to go public with it. see link:
http://www.bangkokpost.com/opinion/...iled-to-halt-south-china-sea-territorial-spat
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Cool thanks for that, an interesting read.
NM.
the irony of that is that in the Hieronymus of Rhodes version, the poor bugger in the middle gets screwed either way .....
Exactly. Chinese (& Taiwanese) policy there is a mirror image of what it is in the South China Sea. The arguments China uses against what Japan's done on Okinotorishima are exactly the same as those that it dismisses as invalid when they're used against its own claims & actions in the SCS.
weaponwh and anyone else planning to post in this thread, please take note of this warning - we are giving one last chance to heed prior warnings.
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they did, but its not the first country nor the last do the same, I think Vietnam or Taiwan did the same many years ago, just not on the scale as china. we can sail there, but china can also fly there since its international water. but are we gonna sail through island control by Vietnam/Taiwan or only china claimed island?
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