NZDF General discussion thread

[kiwipatriot69]

Fiji army purchases $19 million NZD in arms from russia

Has anyone seen the reports coming in from radio nz and the Tv broadcasts yesterday about russia selling weapons to fiji ? sorry maybe someone could post a link from a reliable source? what possible reason could Russia have in doing so

 

[Goknub]

Bainimarama has put in some effort to court Russia as protection against any Western intervention in Fiji. He's even travelled to Moscow and held talks with Putin.
For Russia it allows them to extend political influence into the Pacific at a very low cost.

More broadly I think Aust/NZ need to be playing smarter when it comes to our Pacific neighbours. While Russia will be limited in what it can achieve, the Chinese would likely be very fond of a naval base located beyond the first island chain.

 

[kiwipatriot69]

By 'playing smarter' in regards to our pacific neighbours, are you meaning diplomacy,because sanctions against Fiji backfired on both of our Nations.Or are you meaning increased patrols, a show of force in the region? without diverting what little is available from current tasking NZDF would be hard pressed to do so.

 

[Goknub]

Sanctions or patrols should be the last thing we should be considering. Threats will just ensure our backyard becomes "their" backyard.
I'd be focusing on more joint training and exchange programs plus pushing further economic integration. Infrastructure is a big one. Most Pacific islands have port facilities that have barely been improved since World War 2. If there's one thing the Chinese are good at it's large engineering projects.

 

[ngatimozart]

I've read the items on Radio NZ and went and had a look at the Fiji media. The impression that I get is that most for the material is for the Fijian UN troops. However I do wonder what the quid pro quo is and what it is for the Chinese stuff that they have received over the years. As far as Chinese PLAN basing outside the Second Island Chain their apparent preferred base is Port Moresby - if you believe the source material.

 

[t68]

I've read the items on Radio NZ and went and had a look at the Fiji media. The impression that I get is that most for the material is for the Fijian UN troops. However I do wonder what the quid pro quo is and what it is for the Chinese stuff that they have received over the years. As far as Chinese PLAN basing outside the Second Island Chain their apparent preferred base is Port Moresby - if you believe the source material.

sorry ngati I cant get you link to work, any chance of a fix please.

 

[ngatimozart]

sorry ngati I cant get you link to work, any chance of a fix please.

Thanks. Fixed the link. My apologies.

 

[chis73]

Cyclone Winston response

NZDF are swinging into action again, in response to Cyclone Winston in Fiji. It must feel like deja vu, coming almost a year after Cyclone Pam hit Vanuatu.

So far:

• A P-3K2 Orion has conducted a photo reconnaissance mission, and dropped comms equipment to an isolated island.
  
• A C-130 has flown in 12t of relief supplies & an assessment team.
  
• A 757 has delivered an Army engineer team and a Fire Service urban SAR team.

Thankfully, no breakdowns reported yet.

Navy (link) will be sending OPV HMNZS Wellington (departing tomorrow) and the MRV HMNZS Canterbury (departing Sunday). The Navy's facebook page suggests Wellington may carry the REA (rapid environmental assessment) boats (their 1st overseas deployment?). No word yet on whether Canterbury will be carrying NH90s this time or just (the older) Seasprites again.

Somewhat fortuitously, Canterbury wasn't too far away. She was scheduled to be conducting a mission to Campbell Island (link), which seems a questionable tasking in peak cyclone season. I suppose if you have to visit Campbell Island, summer's the time to do it.

RAAF have been flying in C-17s. It sounds like they may fly in an MRH90 tomorrow via C-17 (ahem, cough, splutter). They also contributed an AP-3C Orion for damage assessment. RAN are planning to send HMAS Canberra - crikey!(link).

One assumes French Pacific forces are also involved in the response, but I haven't come across any news on it.

I wonder if there will be another muster of the Pacific Patrol boats. They seemed to do good work during the Cyclone Pam response eg. Samoan assistance to Tuvalu, and PNG & Solomons boats operated in Vanuatu.


Thoughts go out to the people of Fiji. Stay strong.

Chis73.

 

[t68]

If the NH-90 can self deploy might be able to link up with the LHD and work from it

 

[kiwipatriot69]

Thanks for that! i was wondering if/when HMNZ Canterbury would be deployed,with that it looks like a substantial effort NZDF are putting in, counting HMNZ Wellington, P3 Orion , and Hercules involvement. Iwonder how long it would take HMNZ Canterbury to get there,would we make it before Canberra does?

 

[rjtjrt]

NZDF are swinging into action again, in response to Cyclone Winston in Fiji. It must feel like deja vu, coming almost a year after Cyclone Pam hit Vanuatu.

So far:

• A P-3K2 Orion has conducted a photo reconnaissance mission, and dropped comms equipment to an isolated island.
  
• A C-130 has flown in 12t of relief supplies & an assessment team.
  
• A 757 has delivered an Army engineer team and a Fire Service urban SAR team.

Thankfully, no breakdowns reported yet.

Navy (link) will be sending OPV HMNZS Wellington (departing tomorrow) and the MRV HMNZS Canterbury (departing Sunday). The Navy's facebook page suggests Wellington may carry the REA (rapid environmental assessment) boats (their 1st overseas deployment?). No word yet on whether Canterbury will be carrying NH90s this time or just (the older) Seasprites again.

Somewhat fortuitously, Canterbury wasn't too far away. She was scheduled to be conducting a mission to Campbell Island (link), which seems a questionable tasking in peak cyclone season. I suppose if you have to visit Campbell Island, summer's the time to do it.

RAAF have been flying in C-17s. It sounds like they may fly in an MRH90 tomorrow via C-17 (ahem, cough, splutter). They also contributed an AP-3C Orion for damage assessment. RAN are planning to send HMAS Canberra - crikey!(link).

One assumes French Pacific forces are also involved in the response, but I haven't come across any news on it.

I wonder if there will be another muster of the Pacific Patrol boats. They seemed to do good work during the Cyclone Pam response eg. Samoan assistance to Tuvalu, and PNG & Solomons boats operated in Vanuatu.


Thoughts go out to the people of Fiji. Stay strong.

Chis73.

I have read RAAF C-17 have delivered 4 MRH90 to Fiji and it was said they (MRH90's) will be flying today.
RAN LHD HMAS Canberra will leave soon for Fiji.

 

[ngatimozart]

Thanks for that! i was wondering if/when HMNZ Canterbury would be deployed,with that it looks like a substantial effort NZDF are putting in, counting HMNZ Wellington, P3 Orion , and Hercules involvement. Iwonder how long it would take HMNZ Canterbury to get there,would we make it before Canberra does?

According to the RNZN Facebook page, HMNZS Canterbury will sail from Devenport Naval Base (DNB) on Sunday for Fiji. She will have 2 x Seasprites and 2 x NH90s onboard, plus aid supplies and equipment. HMNZS Wellington sailed from DNB today in order to conduct advance and support activities for Canterbury. The Military Hydrographic Group is also onboard Wellington with their Rapid Environmental Assessment capability. This is the NH90s first operational foreign deployment.

 

[RegR]

According to the RNZN Facebook page, HMNZS Canterbury will sail from Devenport Naval Base (DNB) on Sunday for Fiji. She will have 2 x Seasprites and 2 x NH90s onboard, plus aid supplies and equipment. HMNZS Wellington sailed from DNB today in order to conduct advance and support activities for Canterbury. The Military Hydrographic Group is also onboard Wellington with their Rapid Environmental Assessment capability. This is the NH90s first operational foreign deployment.

CY proving its worth yet again. Would have thought one of the sprites would have travelled onboard Wellington to be used earlier and free up space on CY for more supplies, must be an operational reason.

A good and timely response from NZDF nonetheless.

 

[ngatimozart]

CY proving its worth yet again. Would have thought one of the sprites would have travelled onboard Wellington to be used earlier and free up space on CY for more supplies, must be an operational reason.

A good and timely response from NZDF nonetheless.

I am wondering if they've got the REAs in the hangar. Not sure that much flying of the Sprites off the OPVs has occurred, so they may not be fully cleared yet.

 

[RubiconNZ]

CY proving its worth yet again. Would have thought one of the sprites would have travelled onboard Wellington to be used earlier and free up space on CY for more supplies, must be an operational reason.

A good and timely response from NZDF nonetheless.

Yeah, perhaps either Seasprite readiness or perhaps the Military Hydrographic Group's equipment.

Also in other news Brownlee's response to questions about the Australian White Paper. NZ Herald

I think there is a little bit of wishful thinking from Paul Buchanan, NZ irregardless of government has shown itself more than capable of sticking it's head in the sand when it comes to regional security.

 

[ngatimozart]

Yeah, perhaps either Seasprite readiness or perhaps the Military Hydrographic Group's equipment.

Also in other news Brownlee's response to questions about the Australian White Paper. NZ Herald

I think there is a little bit of wishful thinking from Paul Buchanan, NZ irregardless of government has shown itself more than capable of sticking it's head in the sand when it comes to regional security.

Mind you Buchanan is dead right in his comments about an army centric military given our being a maritime nation. However that does come down to self inflicted sea blindness. I do agree with your comments regarding the tendency for NZGs of all stripes to ignore regional security threats. It is my belief that they have an unwritten rule of bludging off allies, neighbours and coalition partners when it comes to defence. This has been evident since WW2, but more so during the last 25 years. They love defence but only if they don't have to pay for it.

 

[RegR]

I am wondering if they've got the REAs in the hangar. Not sure that much flying of the Sprites off the OPVs has occurred, so they may not be fully cleared yet.

Yes could be keeping them out of the elements I guess, surely would not have wasted the hanger space to move some mil/civ kit.

 

[ngatimozart]

Yes could be keeping them out of the elements I guess, surely would not have wasted the hanger space to move some mil/civ kit.

Doesn't really matter because Canterbury can take six fling wings and they are only taking four. If they really needed a fling wing in a hurry up there, they could've chucked an A109 in the back of a C130 or maybe even a Sprite. Hmm don't know if they fit or don't.

 

[RegR]

Yeah, perhaps either Seasprite readiness or perhaps the Military Hydrographic Group's equipment.

Also in other news Brownlee's response to questions about the Australian White Paper. NZ Herald

I think there is a little bit of wishful thinking from Paul Buchanan, NZ irregardless of government has shown itself more than capable of sticking it's head in the sand when it comes to regional security.

Whilst army centric to him could just be they are all at minimum just the other two services are worse off, I would'nt suggest we rob peter to pay paul and andy, more we find a way to get them up to peters 'level'.

Maybe we could take Aus idea and hit that magical 2% target.......wishful thinking.

 

[RubiconNZ]

Mind you Buchanan is dead right in his comments about an army centric military given our being a maritime nation. However that does come down to self inflicted sea blindness. I do agree with your comments regarding the tendency for NZGs of all stripes to ignore regional security threats. It is my belief that they have an unwritten rule of bludging off allies, neighbours and coalition partners when it comes to defence. This has been evident since WW2, but more so during the last 25 years. They love defence but only if they don't have to pay for it.

Absolutely, it is to bad he doesn't use stronger language, folly, lunacy, idiotic short sightless or outright negligent.

The salient paragraph seems to be nearly typed in capital letters in the form a diplomatic government vetted public document.

We recognise that New Zealand will make its own judgements on its national interests, and that New Zealand’s military capability choices may not always reflect Australia’s Despite this, we will continue to coordinate our efforts with New Zealand in the South Pacific and in supporting our shared interests in a secure region and a rules-based global order

(Emphasis added by me. )