Royal Australian Air Force [RAAF] News, Discussions and Updates

[Nick underscore]

More news for the RAAF...

We have picked up the x4 options on the P-8A. Bring the fleet to x12.

Boeing Receives $2.5 Billion P8-A Aircraft Contract For US Navy, Australia

Contract price for Aust Gov $411mio USD

They must have them under a spell..

Side note and may be covered in the WP. Are the RAAF/ ADF looking at the AAS pod, once testing complete? I would assume so..

So with the MQ-4C Triton numbers still be announced (possibly x7), x12 P-8 covering MPA and the x2 G550's announced recently, the P-3 replacement programme would seem complete. Most should be happy with this

 

[ADMk2]

The other REPSIM contributor Michael Price Submission No.2 made disparaging remarks but now I think I know the reason (deregistration?). I stand by my Chris Mills remarks but I have no idea if he can run a business otherwise. Lots of people get into troubles running businesses - as I understand.

Yes, Michael Price seems by far the most 'out there' of the two, but the H3MilSim's they are so proud of undertaking were simply ludicrous,

They went along the lines of ' if 4x SU-35's flying along at M1.2 at 55k feet and carrying a dozen missiles each, took off from Townsville (1350k's North) and 4x F-35's took off from Amberley flying at M0.8, 40k feet and carrying 4x AMRAAM's each, look how badly we say the F-35's would do...'

No tactics. No discussion of the operational events leading up to Chinese / Russian SU-35's taking off from RAAF Townsville. No discussion of where the Su-35's where going or how they planned to get back. No discussion of how the Su-35's even managed to find the F-35's from 1350+ kays away, just arbitrarily chosen stats, designed to portray the F-35 in the worst possible light, to make whatever ridiculous point they were trying to make.

Which is why (I suspect) neither is a defence professional these days and why neither can manage to sell their 'services...'

The only one they ever 'sold' this rubbish to, showed such poor judgement over the matter, he found himself about as employable in this field as Mr Mills and Mr Price, have shown themselves to be...

 

[t68]

More news for the RAAF...

We have picked up the x4 options on the P-8A. Bring the fleet to x12.

Boeing Receives $2.5 Billion P8-A Aircraft Contract For US Navy, Australia

Contract price for Aust Gov $411mio USD

They must have them under a spell..

Side note and may be covered in the WP. Are the RAAF/ ADF looking at the AAS pod, once testing complete? I would assume so..

So with the MQ-4C Triton numbers still be announced (possibly x7), x12 P-8 covering MPA and the x2 G550's announced recently, the P-3 replacement programme would seem complete. Most should be happy with this

That's interesting Flight Global seems to think its the completion of the original 8 on order, only going buy the USNI article from August 2015 for contract of the first four placed of 8.

https://www.flightglobal.com/news/a...deal-for-20-us-and-australian-p-8-pos-421406/

Navy Issues Boeing $1.49B P-8A Contract Includes Australia's First 4 Planes, 9 for U.S. - USNI News

 

[SpazSinbad]

That's interesting Flight Global seems to think its the completion of the original 8 on order, only going buy the USNI article from August 2015 for contract of the first four placed of 8.

https://www.flightglobal.com/news/a...deal-for-20-us-and-australian-p-8-pos-421406/

Navy Issues Boeing $1.49B P-8A Contract Includes Australia's First 4 Planes, 9 for U.S. - USNI News

20 More P-8s for US, Australia Ordered From Boeing

"...All 20 aircraft in this latest order are Lot III full-rate production aircraft. The award is a modification to a previously awarded fixed-price-incentive-firm contract from the US Navy.

The award includes the second batch of four Poseidons for the RAAF. Australia is the second international partner for the P-8A, and agreed in 2014 to buy eight Poseidons, with an option for four more. A decision on the four option aircraft is to be part of the country’s new Defence White Paper, due this year...."

 

[Oberon]

20 More P-8s for US, Australia Ordered From Boeing

Speaking of the DWP, I read somewhere that it is likely to be released sometime after the May Budget ....... possibly July '16.

 

[Stampede]

20 More P-8s for US, Australia Ordered From Boeing

I like Nick would like the announcement of an extra 4 P-8A's.
However my reading from Australian Aviation defence section concurs that it's only the second batch of four from the original 8 ordered and we still need to wait for the outcome of the DWP re the option of an additional four to bring the total to 12.
Time will tell
Regards S

 

[Nick underscore]

I like Nick would like the announcement of an extra 4 P-8A's.
However my reading from Australian Aviation defence section concurs that it's only the second batch of four from the original 8 ordered and we still need to wait for the outcome of the DWP re the option of an additional four to bring the total to 12.
Time will tell
Regards S

I think you're right chaps. This is the second tranche of the 8 and not the options.

Apologies

 

[Stampede]

I think you're right chaps. This is the second tranche of the 8 and not the options.

Notice that the C-27J Spartan is coming on as a project after some initial problems of selection and costings.Probably a long overdue capability since the retirement of the Caribou, I'm sure it will be a great contibutor to our area of operations.Defence lists that the C-27j can land at twice the airfields than the hercules (400 v 200 ) and in our area ( 1900 v 500 ) .Certainly most impressive and I guess you have to wonder how have we coped without a Caribou sized capability for so long.
I would hope when all ten come into service that some thought is given to increasing numbers down the track.
Regards S

 

[swerve]

The G.222J is Caribou-sized in length & wingspan, but not in capability. Even a CN-235 has significantly more payload & passenger capacity than a Caribou, & over longer ranges. A C-27J carries far, far more, much faster, & much further.

 

[rjtjrt]

The G.222J is Caribou-sized in length & wingspan, but not in capability. Even a CN-235 has significantly more payload & passenger capacity than a Caribou, & over longer ranges. A C-27J carries far, far more, much faster, & much further.

Payload and range are not what Caribou was primarily bought for.
If we are considering capability if Caribou replacement, then what about one of the main the reasons for buying a transport to compliment the C-130.
Try landing a C-27J, or CN-235/295 in the mountain one way strips in PNG (eg Tapini).
We have lost a significant capability to operate in our region since Caribou gone. Probably the CH-47 is its replacement in some ways, but too few Chinooks and too expensive to operate to really replace Caribou.

 

[swerve]

STOL was the Caribou's main value, IMO. But I was replying to a post about the C-27J which said this - "I guess you have to wonder how have we coped without a Caribou sized capability for so long.", implying similar capabilities.

 

[rjtjrt]

STOL was the Caribou's main value, IMO. But I was replying to a post about the C-27J which said this - "I guess you have to wonder how have we coped without a Caribou sized capability for so long.", implying similar capabilities.

Fair enough. I thought you and most/all others would be aware of Caribou raison d'etre, but couldn't help posting about our relative reduction in one aspect of capability in our region since Caribou gone.

 

[John Fedup]

Payload and range are not what Caribou was primarily bought for.
If we are considering capability if Caribou replacement, then what about one of the main the reasons for buying a transport to compliment the C-130.
Try landing a C-27J, or CN-235/295 in the mountain one way strips in PNG (eg Tapini).
We have lost a significant capability to operate in our region since Caribou gone. Probably the CH-47 is its replacement in some ways, but too few Chinooks and too expensive to operte t really replace Caribou.

The Caribou had its momement in the sun. It has capabilities that the CN-295 or C-27J can't match but lacks their very important specs, speed and range. Viking (they retain the build rights from D-H/Bombardier) proposed an updated Caribou for Canada's FWSAR replacement. It was rejected and rightfully so, there is no way it could replicate what the RCAF needs or most other AFs for that matter.

 

[rjtjrt]

T

The Caribou had its momement in the sun. It has capabilities that the CN-295 or C-27J can't match but lacks their very important specs, speed and range. Viking (they retain the build rights from D-H/Bombardier) proposed an updated Caribou for Canada's FWSAR replacement. It was rejected and rightfully so, there is no way it could replicate what the RCAF needs or most other AFs for that matter.

Our requirement for South Pacific/PNG is where we have some unusual requirements compared to Canada.
I am not suggesting new Caribou (although new build Buffalo if it ever comes about would be useful).
We (Australia) probably would be well served with a small number of Twotters, that could serve as liason aircraft at RAAF bases, and also serve with SASR, and be very handy in PNG if conflict or HADR. Viking new build. Problem is RAAF have all fixed wing and RAAF don't need them, and Army who would probably find them handy are out of fixed wing.
Not sure, but is it mandatory that all fixed wing are prcluded from Australian Army?
Edit - Good God, it appears I am a corporal - hope power doesn't go to my head!

 

[Stampede]

STOL was the Caribou's main value, IMO. But I was replying to a post about the C-27J which said this - "I guess you have to wonder how have we coped without a Caribou sized capability for so long.", implying similar capabilities.

Swerve your correct to make the point.
Not all things are apples for apple in that I don't think their was actulally a true modern replacement for the unique Caribou with its amazing STOL capability.The C-27j was deemed the best choice in the niche, for want of a better discription; a two engined transport aircraft with rear ramp that lies between your Hercules sized aircraft and the serving Kingairs.
I remembeer seeing the Caribou as a young Cadet demonstrate a cargo drop of pallets in the 70's. Certainly a very impressive sight on what was a very windy day.The aircraft appeared to be flying so slow you could be mistaken to think it was going to stop in mid air........ Those very big wings.
Similarly, was impressed at an air show of the C-27 doing a loop and a barrel roll. Not sure of the tactical value but certainly an impressive sight.
The Caribou and C-27j both have their own attributes in contributing to the ADF's tactical lift. I trust the C-27j will prove it's worth in the years ahead.
I'm confident it will.

Regards S

 

[t68]

Not all things are apples for apple in that I don't think their was actulally a true modern replacement for the unique Caribou with its amazing STOL capability.

Yes there is but an expensive one MV-22 Osprey.

This subject came up some time ago, I think it was AD that said that whilst the capabilty was usefull in PNG that's really all there was for it operationally or something along those line. Whereas the C27J gives us more options.

Personally I think there is a role for a Squadrons worth of Osprey within our fleet for SOCOMD as replacements for Blackhawk

 

[John Fedup]

Our requirement for South Pacific/PNG is where we have some unusual requirements compared to Canada.
I am not suggesting new Caribou (although new build Buffalo if it ever comes about would be useful).
We (Australia) probably would be well served with a small number of Twotters, that could serve as liason aircraft at RAAF bases, and also serve with SASR, and be very handy in PNG if conflict or HADR. Viking new build. Problem is RAAF have all fixed wing and RAAF don't need them, and Army who would probably find them handy are out of fixed wing.
Not sure, but is it mandatory that all fixed wing are prcluded from Australian Army?
Edit - Good God, it appears I am a corporal - hope power doesn't go to my head!

The new build Viking Otters (DHC-6) are a sales success and for many customers, they are a cost effective solution for a variety of tasks. The amphibious option makes them quite attractive for the South Pacific region.

 

[Oberon]

Our requirement for South Pacific/PNG is where we have some unusual requirements compared to Canada.
I am not suggesting new Caribou (although new build Buffalo if it ever comes about would be useful).
We (Australia) probably would be well served with a small number of Twotters, that could serve as liason aircraft at RAAF bases, and also serve with SASR, and be very handy in PNG if conflict or HADR. Viking new build. Problem is RAAF have all fixed wing and RAAF don't need them, and Army who would probably find them handy are out of fixed wing.
Not sure, but is it mandatory that all fixed wing are prcluded from Australian Army?
Edit - Good God, it appears I am a corporal - hope power doesn't go to my head!

Army did operate King Airs but, otherwise, it is as you said: fixed wing for Air Force and rotary wing for Army and Navy.

As far as twin otters for the liaison role between Air Force bases goes, the RAAF already has a number of King airs.

 

[John Newman]

Army did operate King Airs but, otherwise, it is as you said: fixed wing for Air Force and rotary wing for Army and Navy.

As far as twin otters for the liaison role between Air Force bases goes, the RAAF already has a number of King airs.

The army did in fact operate a number of King Airs.

Have a look at ADF Serials link:

Welcome to ADF Serials

Have a look under Australian Army Aviation, A-32 serial numbers.

When the Caribou's were withdrawn from service, the Army aircraft transferred over to RAAF control.

 

[Stampede]

Yes there is but an expensive one MV-22 Osprey.

This subject came up some time ago, I think it was AD that said that whilst the capabilty was usefull in PNG that's really all there was for it operationally or something along those line. Whereas the C27J gives us more options.

Personally I think there is a role for a Squadrons worth of Osprey within our fleet for SOCOMD as replacements for Blackhawk

Yes - fair call The MV-22 Ospey does it all.
I wonder, if in the hypothetical they were to run the Caribou replacement now, if the Osprey would be in the mix. It has proved itself in combat, and with Japan as the first export customer I'm sure others will follow.
Maybe for Australia it's a nice to have, but realisticaly a platform for down the track.
Who know's, time will tell.
For myself, if there were some extra dollars I would expand in numbers existing in service aviation assets and keep the training and logistic foot print as is.
I feel the three services currently have a fairly good mix of fixed / rotary aircraft for a defence force of our size.
As to the future,well thats guess work.

Regards Stampede