J.O.R.N (Jindalee Operational Radar Network) of Australia

[lobbie111]

I understand. To the matter of JORN. This replacement clearly JORN
has done, what was called the previous Radar, before the newest one.
Are you considering, the radar technology has taken the advantage,
as for the latest new products, with protection as measurable as it is?

I don't believe there was a previous radar, JORN was borne out of a requirment for a new system not a replacement for an existing one.

Well as I understand to an extent it does take advantage of new LO technologies because of the way it works by finding the top of the aircraft not the flat bottom. There isn't really a detection capability that matches JORN it is a pretty unique capability.

 

[gf0012-aust]

There isn't really a detection capability that matches JORN it is a pretty unique capability.

Not entirely correct. There are a couple of other systems with similar technology, however JORN is unique wrt depth of interrogation and a few other sensing/discrimination "bits"

 

[lobbie111]

what do you mean by "depth of interrogation" detail, or range?

 

[Pro'forma]

I don't believe there was a previous radar, JORN was borne out of a requirment for a new system not a replacement for an existing one.

Well as I understand to an extent it does take advantage of new LO technologies because of the way it works by finding the top of the aircraft not the flat bottom. There isn't really a detection capability that matches JORN it is a pretty unique capability.

Correct. I dont disagree your conclusion.
JORN Australia got the head-point on their International protection affairs.
Your main (first) suggest as required new system is true.
Second nx. main thing is range of detection, nor losing first main
x-opportunity and touch.
Any close you think you find your way ?

 

[lobbie111]

Second nx. main thing is range of detection, nor losing first main
x-opportunity and touch.
Any close you think you find your way ?

Sorry I'm not sure what you mean, do you mean an X band capability?

 

[Pro'forma]

Sorry I'm not sure what you mean, do you mean an X band capability?

Second nx. ? ( Second next )

Was writing x-opportunity to jump to the detection range. Band of detection.
When you are turning from 6,560, feet down , you get the first touch of
detection and revealed. Good protection I would say.

Band capability must have been called the "touch" in the area and you
receive the message confirming you are safely recognized without
unpleasant disorder.

Is this the band capability you are looking ?

 

[Awang se]

i think i heard somewhere about the Russian attempt to build OTH radar. it cause quite a ruckus back then. the system disturb the radios all over the globe. i don't recall the name of that system.

 

[gf0012-aust]

i think i heard somewhere about the Russian attempt to build OTH radar. it cause quite a ruckus back then. the system disturb the radios all over the globe. i don't recall the name of that system.

IIRC it was nicknamed "Woodpecker" but was NATO referenced as "Steel Yard"

The Russians also had Irida which was similar to the now dismantled Aust SWR in Far North Qld

 

[tuxcomputers]

I work on a JORN site and I almost wet myself laughing at some of the stuff written in this thread. nfloorl:

GEC Marconi built the hardware, Telstra were contracted to integrate the system and write the software, they failed. RLM Systems was a joint venture between Lockheed Martin and Tenix. Last year some time Tenix sold off all of it's defence contracts to BAE, thankfully the JORN project was not one of them. BAE are bad enough at repairing the components we send them to be repaired.

Lockheed Martin Australia Electronics Systems was given approval last year to buy the other half of the company. We are in the process of integrating into the parent company. I got new uniforms when the use of the old RLM logo was withdrawn. Some the mandatory corporate training is boring and is VERY American based as you would expect.

We recently had some of our engineers from Adelaide up to site, it is hard to wrap your head around some of the concepts of the planned upgrades. The boffins developing this system lose me after they say "Hi my name is xx."

Comparing the JORN radar to other OTHR's around the world is like comparing a BB gun to an ICBM, we have the best.

 

[gf0012-aust]

I work on a JORN site and I almost wet myself laughing at some of the stuff written in this thread. nfloorl:

GEC Marconi built the hardware, Telstra were contracted to integrate the system and write the software, they failed. RLM Systems was a joint venture between Lockheed Martin and Tenix. Last year some time Tenix sold off all of it's defence contracts to BAE, thankfully the JORN project was not one of them. BAE are bad enough at repairing the components we send them to be repaired.

Lockheed Martin Australia Electronics Systems was given approval last year to buy the other half of the company. We are in the process of integrating into the parent company. I got new uniforms when the use of the old RLM logo was withdrawn. Some the mandatory corporate training is boring and is VERY American based as you would expect.

We recently had some of our engineers from Adelaide up to site, it is hard to wrap your head around some of the concepts of the planned upgrades. The boffins developing this system lose me after they say "Hi my name is xx."

Comparing the JORN radar to other OTHR's around the world is like comparing a BB gun to an ICBM, we have the best.

How long have you been on it? My contact has been since the days of "Nn" Antennas". If you've got around 20 years under your belt you'll know the name of the company. I'd hazard a guess that newer employees wouldn't know some of the original subbies to Telstra....

In fact the Senior tech who worked for "Nn" Antennas" in those days has been in the SA News quite recently over some completely unrelated business....

 

[tuxcomputers]

How long have you been on it? My contact has been since the days of "Nn" Antennas". If you've got around 20 years under your belt you'll know the name of the company. I'd hazard a guess that newer employees wouldn't know some of the original subbies to Telstra....

In fact the Senior tech who worked for "Nn" Antennas" in those days has been in the SA News quite recently over some completely unrelated business....

I have only been here just over 2 and a half years. I asked some of the tech's that have been here since the start, they were Telstra employees that changed over to RLM, they have no idea what Nn Antennas is. Do you mean the TX or RX antennas?

I might not know as much history as you do and I am not saying everything in this thread is wrong or even what you wrote is wrong. Just that some of what is in this thread is outside the bounds of common sense.

What I am saying is that as a current direct employee of Lockheed Martin with a security clearance and working on the radar everyday (actually I fly out today) I am privy to information about the current operation of the radar that a subbie to Telstra 20 years ago might not have been.

Do you know the name of the main boffin guy? No-one uses his last name, everyone just calls him Dr X. He is just a spin out, the only words I recognise while he is talking are ionosphere and "the", everything else is above my head.... ooooh and transmitter I recognise that word too....

He is funny though, one site visit he wore a shirt that had on it "Ohh... just let me drop everything I am working on and fix YOUR problem"

Brain the size of a planet, he can recognise which individual operator is on duty from the wave pattern the radar is putting out. Whatever they are paying him is not enough.

Normal radar uses microwaves, these are only a few centimetres long. Normal radar has a lower limit of 3GHz, a full wave length at that frequency is only 100mm long.

Stealth technology uses several methods to reduce the the planes reflections, one is shape, the other is that the under the nonreflective skin of the aircraft it is like a bunch of microwave receivers, they look like honeycomb. To receive a signal you have to absorb and convert the EM wave, the cells under the skin absording some of the EM wave makes less available to be reflected back.

Even a 1/4 wave length at 30MHz is 2.5 metres long, there is no hiding from that.

 

[gf0012-aust]

I might not know as much history as you do and I am not saying everything in this thread is wrong or even what you wrote is wrong. Just that some of what is in this thread is outside the bounds of common sense.

wasn't having a go at you, and do agree

will PM you later as at work

 

[defence4440]

Don't Blink - I SEE you

I certainly agree about it being able to detect at 3500 Kms but when the target is in air..but no way on the sea. Also the range of 3500 is bit optimistic and at that range it is difficult for it to identify the target clearly.

Having worked with ROTHR in Chesapeake, VA in the 80's I can tell you, "Gotchya", if you were a periscope moving faster than 5 knots on the surface, 2800 miles away. Do the math, 5 knots is VERY close to the Bragg Line and any slower than that, you get a pass. :0) Go here to see the site I worked at. The "circle" looking thing in the right corner is the "elephant" cage, a Wollen-Weber antenna. Put these coordinates in google earth: 35.558652 -76.265322

Outside of working for uncle sugar making things go boom, working on ROTHR and antennas was a lot of fun.

Mike
(on the world's largest sandbar)

 

[tuxcomputers]

Are you sure those are the co-ords? I put those into Google maps and it is in the middle of a farm field and it is 2.5 hours from Chesapeake, VA.

 

[defence4440]

i think i heard somewhere about the Russian attempt to build OTH radar. it cause quite a ruckus back then. the system disturb the radios all over the globe. i don't recall the name of that system.

"Woodpecker."

 

[defence4440]

Are you sure those are the co-ords? I put those into Google maps and it is in the middle of a farm field and it is 2.5 hours from Chesapeake, VA.

You are correct "those" coordinates are WRONG. I must have moved the pointer when I was typing, here are the real ones:
36.558997 -76.265517 and I just copied them and they are correct. The site is right on the VA, NC line just off Battlefield Blvd 168.

Just a little update, it took about 10 minutes to get an EXACT fix on a target back in those days. (slow computers) Also we could "steer" the bins electronically by phasing and other 'neat' stuff. We had a Dr. on our team too, can't remember his name but our system was built by Raytheon. The system was moved to Amchitka, ak in the late 80's or early 90's and only run for a short time. The Navy 'pulled' a fast one in the development by calling it ROTHR as opposed to OTH designed by the Air Force. Slick, real slick, our tax dollars at work, go figure.

The X-mitter site was located at "White-House" approximately 50 miles away. The place was in Maryus, VA someplace, can't remember. (It was NOT in an area named White House, Va. That place is actually about 186 miles away.)

The X-mitter and Receiver could NOT be co-located, for obvious reasons. It did operate from 10MHz to about 30MHz. There is a lot more detail and anyone can find it if you do a google. I use to have to "carry" the 10MHz clock standard back and forth for sync, (pre GPS days)

Mike

 

[Commstech]

Have noticed Catops (Nova systems) looking for techs/mechs/ils for defence role similar to Jorn in the job descriptions. Anyone able to shed light if radar 3 BAE are being replaced/outsourced or if this is for another project? Haven't contacted the Catops recruitment yet but curious if they are recruiting for Jorn and which site if so. Thanks.

 

[gf0012-aust]

Have noticed Catops (Nova systems) looking for techs/mechs/ils for defence role similar to Jorn in the job descriptions. Anyone able to shed light if radar 3 BAE are being replaced/outsourced or if this is for another project? Haven't contacted the Catops recruitment yet but curious if they are recruiting for Jorn and which site if so. Thanks.

If its JORN then you end up in of 3 sites - either way you end up travelling.
It could always be a churn issue as a number of GIS/INT projects are short on geeks

There's a general shortage of ILS heads, small market and everyone needs them - so they're tapping the same pool.

 

[Nick underscore]

Caught this a few weeks back regarding the completion of Phase 5 for JORN. The article itself is a few weeks old, but the DMO comfirmed this was completed end of May this year. Performance Boost For Australia

I thought I had read previously somewhere that phase 5 essentially completes the 'coverage and integration' requirments defined back in 1987..

 

[fbi098]

I too examine that JORN found Stealth planes over Baghdad, but of which seemed unlikely if you ask me too. Maritime surveillance is among the primary functions of JORN gift, whatever individuals articles may say. Best wishes.