The Royal Navy Discussions and Updates

[AegisFC]

P-3 users currently have a lot of options to keep their planes flying for at least another decade or more. If they don't want to go P-8. Lockheed currently offers a wing and center fuselage replacement and upgrade that is good for 15,000 hours.

Airbus Defence and Space and Lockheed Martin to upgrade German Navy P-3C Orion fleet

Airbus Defence, L3, EADS/CASA and a few others offer sensor and avionics upgrades.

 

[swerve]

If this is the case then I can understand previous comments about concerns using surplus (used) C-130s. On the plus side, kitting up a few surplus C-130s could offer proof of concept for a hopefully reasonable amount. Don't think the C-130J is going away anytime soon so if everything works, new aircraft could be fitted out as needed.

In Canada, at some point, our P-3C Aurora Orions will need replacement. The possibilities include the P-8, a combination of UAVs and a business jet MPA or perhaps the SC-130J. As the UK's need is more urgent, should the UK choose the SC-130J solution it will help Canada decide which way to go down the road.

Don't need a proof of concept. There have been MPA C-130s around for ages.

 

[StobieWan]

P-3 users currently have a lot of options to keep their planes flying for at least another decade or more. If they don't want to go P-8. Lockheed currently offers a wing and center fuselage replacement and upgrade that is good for 15,000 hours.

Airbus Defence and Space and Lockheed Martin to upgrade German Navy P-3C Orion fleet

Airbus Defence, L3, EADS/CASA and a few others offer sensor and avionics upgrades.

And they fit Because P3 was actually manufactured to something resembling modern tolerances as opposed to Nimrod.

 

[AegisFC]

And they fit Because P3 was actually manufactured to something resembling modern tolerances as opposed to Nimrod.

Which is odd considering the P-3 was developed almost a decade earlier.
Must of used BL workers.

 

[StobieWan]

Nigel. Tinsnips. I've outlined my mental model of the Comet production line in the past

 

[John Fedup]

P-3 users currently have a lot of options to keep their planes flying for at least another decade or more. If they don't want to go P-8. Lockheed currently offers a wing and center fuselage replacement and upgrade that is good for 15,000 hours.

Airbus Defence and Space and Lockheed Martin to upgrade German Navy P-3C Orion fleet

Airbus Defence, L3, EADS/CASA and a few others offer sensor and avionics upgrades.

Canada opted for upgrading the Aurora (Cdn version of the P-3).

Maintaining Canada’s CP-140 Aurora Fleet

Although this is likely a reasonable project, it is another example of a Canadian government postponing a needed replacement and pushing the difficult job on to a future government. This is the same pathetic leadership that is responsible for a huge recapitalization pileup badly needed for the RCAF and the RCN. We need new fighters and basically a whole new navy. With the current economy, this recapitalization will increase to a point where it will be politically hopeless given the Canadian electorate's ignorance of all things defence related. They are content to let the US do the heavy lifting while at the same time whining about US foreign policy.

 

[John Fedup]

Don't need a proof of concept. There have been MPA C-130s around for ages.

LM has done numerous versions of the C-130 for many specific applications including MPA. IIRC, the SC-130J in the MPA role will add some additional features including torpedoes. Perhaps proof of concept of is the wrong terminology, I have no doubt they can come up with a good solution, my concern would be how much and when given their recent projects.

 

[gf0012-aust]

LM has done numerous versions of the C-130 for many specific applications including MPA. IIRC, the SC-130J in the MPA role will add some additional features including torpedoes. Perhaps proof of concept of is the wrong terminology, I have no doubt they can come up with a good solution, my concern would be how much and when given their recent projects.

I've seen some interesting models of MPA hercs, awacs hercs etc when visiting LM

damn shame RAAF never picked up their Orion with a revolving hat when it was first touted - it was a nice looking bit of kit

The Auroras should be a difficult refit as they were basically a P3 with an S3 combat suite - so the tech has shrunk physicaly but expanded in capability by some margin

 

[the concerned]

I like the idea of the sc-130j as we already have the aircraft plus if it is a palletised mission equipment then if there's a problem with the a400 fleet we have a back up. I still think we will go for the p-8 but this has to be sensible alternative.

 

[gf0012-aust]

I like the idea of the sc-130j as we already have the aircraft plus if it is a palletised mission equipment then if there's a problem with the a400 fleet we have a back up. I still think we will go for the p-8 but this has to be sensible alternative.

there will be a hint and a clue as soon as you start having uniforms doing exchanges with squadrons in florida - as thats the start of an internal evaluation and consideration process

 

[ngatimozart]

As much as the SC130 MAY offer a solution to the problem of the UKs lack of a MPA the real question is it the platform that will meet the capability requirements that the UKG set? The P8 maybe far more expensive, however it offers a far greater capability set than the SC130, C295MPA and P1 currently offer. At the moment we don't actually know what requirements the UK govt will stipulate. Maybe the SDSR release next month will give some guidance.

 

[t68]

As much as the SC130 MAY offer a solution to the problem of the UKs lack of a MPA the real question is it the platform that will meet the capability requirements that the UKG set? The P8 maybe far more expensive, however it offers a far greater capability set than the SC130, C295MPA and P1 currently offer. At the moment we don't actually know what requirements the UK govt will stipulate. Maybe the SDSR release next month will give some guidance.

Hi NG

Care to expand on your thought's on the greater capabilty set of the P8 Posideion has over the Kawasaki P1, only reason I ask is that this same debate is going on at another forum that I visit but no one can say how they came to that conclusion.

 

[gf0012-aust]

Hi NG

Care to expand on your thought's on the greater capabilty set of the P8 Posideion has over the Kawasaki P1, only reason I ask is that this same debate is going on at another forum that I visit but no one can say how they came to that conclusion.

range, integration ease, common combat suite layout, power generation is way way way ahead of the kwakka

could go on and on and on

I know what I'd pick

 

[t68]

range, integration ease, common combat suite layout, power generation is way way way ahead of the kwakka

could go on and on and on

I know what I'd pick

Thanks GF first time someone has given such an answer, always thought the Japanese systems would give the Americans a good run for there money

 

[gf0012-aust]

Thanks GF first time someone has given such an answer, always thought the Japanese systems would give the Americans a good run for there money

nothing wrong with the japanese platform - but selection is based on a whole pile of other critical variables.

they have some considerable opportunity to flog it off to a raft of other nations and it would be a goof fit.

if i was in one of any number of rimpac countries I'd be paying attention to it as an offering

 

[recce.k1]

Considering RAF personnel have been flying with allied air forces (Can/Au/NZ/US), has any consideration been given to the UK acquiring (or leasing) some ex-USN P-3C's in the interim?

Considering that's mainly the same platform (& presumably also the P-8) the RAF flight crews have been maintaining their maritime patrol skillsets on under Project Seedcorn. Just seems to be a known and quicker pathway etc.

 

[Volkodav]

damn shame RAAF never picked up their Orion with a revolving hat when it was first touted - it was a nice looking bit of kit

I believe one of the AEW conversions that flew with US Customs (or was it Coast Guard) was actually an ex RAAF P-3B. One of the possibilities being discussed in the 80s was converting several surplus Bs into AEW aircraft with converted Hercs or even new build E-3s; the hole thing slowed down with the end of the Cold War.

 

[gf0012-aust]

I believe one of the AEW conversions that flew with US Customs (or was it Coast Guard)

us customs

 

[swerve]

Nigel. Tinsnips. I've outlined my mental model of the Comet production line in the past

Remember that the crashes of early Comets due to metal fatigue seem to have been at least partly caused by short cuts on the production line. Instead of gluing in window frames as originally designed, they were punch-riveted. Production supervisors didn't understand why it was essential to follow specific processes, so they did what they & the assembly workers were familiar with & was quick & easy.

 

[swerve]

LM has done numerous versions of the C-130 for many specific applications including MPA. IIRC, the SC-130J in the MPA role will add some additional features including torpedoes. Perhaps proof of concept of is the wrong terminology, I have no doubt they can come up with a good solution, my concern would be how much and when given their recent projects.

I think I know what you mean.