Australian Army Discussions and Updates

[Trackmaster]

I haven't seen this one before....but that could well be me missing it.
It would certainly add great capability to the Tigers. The question is...is there any money in a bucket somewhere?

APKWS hits 10-for-10 in rocket tests from Australian Tiger - 4/13/2015 - Flight Global

 

[John Newman]

I couldn't let today, 25th April 2015 (a very special day), go by without paying my respects to the Anzac's, especially my Grandfather (my Mother's Father).

My Grandfather, Pte Arthur Douglas Macdonald (enlisted as a member of the AIF on the 3rd of December 1914), and was a member of the 2nd Battalion, 3rd Reinforcements (regimental No 1604), whilst from the little I know, he may or may not have been there for the landings on 25th April 1915, but he was soon to follow, he was wounded on the 11th of May 1915, only a matter of weeks after the initial landing.

Fortunately he survived his GSW's to the leg and wrist and was evacuated back to Alexandria and then onto England to Harefield House to recuperate further before the journey back to Australia and be discharged back into civilian life, not that life would be exactly the same for him.

If he hadn't of made it back, well I wouldn't be writing this!

My respects again to my Grandfather and all of the original Anzac's too.

And respects too to other members of my family who have served (all Army), my other Grandfather Frederick George Royal (FGR) Newman (my Father's Father), served in South Africa in the Boer War, my Father, William B J Newman (WWII), my uncles, Peter J Newman (WWII), Alan Douglas MacDonald (WWII), Norman Staples (WWII).

All served and survived, but they did also carry a lot of the torment for that time during their lives too.

Lest we forget.

 

[Volkodav]

I couldn't let today, 25th April 2015 (a very special day), go by without paying my respects to the Anzac's, especially my Grandfather (my Mother's Father).

My Grandfather, Pte Arthur Douglas Macdonald (enlisted as a member of the AIF on the 3rd of December 1914), and was a member of the 2nd Battalion, 3rd Reinforcements (regimental No 1604), whilst from the little I know, he may or may not have been there for the landings on 25th April 1915, but he was soon to follow, he was wounded on the 11th of May 1915, only a matter of weeks after the initial landing.

Fortunately he survived his GSW's to the leg and wrist and was evacuated back to Alexandria and then onto England to Harefield House to recuperate further before the journey back to Australia and be discharged back into civilian life, not that life would be exactly the same for him.

If he hadn't of made it back, well I wouldn't be writing this!

My respects again to my Grandfather and all of the original Anzac's too.

And respects too to other members of my family who have served (all Army), my other Grandfather Frederick George Royal (FGR) Newman (my Father's Father), served in South Africa in the Boer War, my Father, William B J Newman (WWII), my uncles, Peter J Newman (WWII), Alan Douglas MacDonald (WWII), Norman Staples (WWII).

All served and survived, but they did also carry a lot of the torment for that time during their lives too.

Lest we forget.

My respects to those who served, those who sacrificed, their loved ones and the communities they came from, none of which were ever the same.

There are "trendies" who knock and criticise the ANZAC tradition, some even attacking the ANZACs themselves with the claims that ANZAC Day is about celebrating war, the truth is they just don't get it, don't understand the shock and the enormity of the loss of so many fit young men. These are definitely in the minority as, if anything, there is more understanding and respect from the average Australian today than they was when I was growing up in the 70s and 80s.

Lest we forget.

 

[gf0012-aust]

There are "trendies" who knock and criticise the ANZAC tradition, some even attacking the ANZACs themselves with the claims that ANZAC Day is about celebrating war, the truth is they just don't get it, don't understand the shock and the enormity of the loss of so many fit young men. These are definitely in the minority as, if anything, there is more understanding and respect from the average Australian today than they was when I was growing up in the 70s and 80s.

Lest we forget.

absolutely, and the protesters seem to come in biorhythm waves.... every few decades

 

[ASSAIL]

absolutely, and the protesters seem to come in biorhythm waves.... every few decades

ANZAC Day was a solemn and sacred day when I was growing up in the 50's and 60's. Every one I knew had a Dad/Grandad/Uncle who had fought in WW1-2 and less than a decade on, the memories of those wars were real and raw.
Every kid knew someone who was an amputee or someone that was in and out of the Repat Hospitals
and then...Vietnam. The social rift that caused was immense and for young men who had been there, the whole point of publicly displaying your medals, your contribution was pointless. We already looked different, we had short hair and wore "normal" clothes. When I came back I didn't attend a march or service until I ran the Navy cadet unit in Broome in the mid 90's and I guess that's what re-kindled the desire, the attitude of the ordinary Broome people had changed along with the rest of the country.

Let's hope we don't go through another 25 years in the wilderness.

 

[ngatimozart]

I couldn't let today, 25th April 2015 (a very special day), go by without paying my respects to the Anzac's, especially my Grandfather (my Mother's Father).

My Grandfather, Pte Arthur Douglas Macdonald (enlisted as a member of the AIF on the 3rd of December 1914), and was a member of the 2nd Battalion, 3rd Reinforcements (regimental No 1604), whilst from the little I know, he may or may not have been there for the landings on 25th April 1915, but he was soon to follow, he was wounded on the 11th of May 1915, only a matter of weeks after the initial landing.

Fortunately he survived his GSW's to the leg and wrist and was evacuated back to Alexandria and then onto England to Harefield House to recuperate further before the journey back to Australia and be discharged back into civilian life, not that life would be exactly the same for him.

If he hadn't of made it back, well I wouldn't be writing this!

My respects again to my Grandfather and all of the original Anzac's too.

And respects too to other members of my family who have served (all Army), my other Grandfather Frederick George Royal (FGR) Newman (my Father's Father), served in South Africa in the Boer War, my Father, William B J Newman (WWII), my uncles, Peter J Newman (WWII), Alan Douglas MacDonald (WWII), Norman Staples (WWII).

All served and survived, but they did also carry a lot of the torment for that time during their lives too.

Lest we forget.

My great Uncle was at Gallipoli and was KIA on 8/8/1915 at Chunuk Bair. He lies in an unknown grave along with the other 631 Commonwealth soldiers. I have another great uncle KIA during WW! and one KIA in Greece during WW2. My father and another 6 uncles came home from WW2 safe in body, but like the WW1 vets they all had their torment that they carried around. They never spoke about it except amongst themselves and usually only after some beers and spirits. Very staunch the ANZACs. Those of my generation from my family who served in the forces got told the stories about some of the mischief they got up to and we were told the serious side too making sure that we understood what we might have to face.

They shall grow not old, as we that are left grow old;
Age shall not weary them, nor the years condemn.
At the going down of the sun and in the morning
We will remember them.
We will remember them.

We will always remember.

 

[MARKMILES77]

Noticed that BAE Systems is now marketing what they are calling the "Goanna" Armoured vehicle. It is the BVS 10 painted in Australian Camouflage. You can see photos of them on the BAE website, including one swimming alongside an LHD (photoshopped presumably).
Is there actually a requirement within LAND 400 or elsewhere for a vehicle of this class for Army or are BAE just speculating that the coming White Paper may contain such a requirement?

 

[Goknub]

There is footage of that particular setup dating back to 2013. My guess is that it was being offered as a replacement for the LARC-Vs which were looking to be decommissioned. They are remaining in service now so it's less of a requirement.
I can't confirm if the dates match up though.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=bhYf5rZr-Jw

 

[Stock]

Noticed that BAE Systems is now marketing what they are calling the "Goanna" Armoured vehicle. It is the BVS 10 painted in Australian Camouflage. You can see photos of them on the BAE website, including one swimming alongside an LHD (photoshopped presumably).
Is there actually a requirement within LAND 400 or elsewhere for a vehicle of this class for Army or are BAE just speculating that the coming White Paper may contain such a requirement?

There is no requirement within Land 400 for a vehicle such as the Bvs10. Not sure where BAE is aiming it at. It is in no way a LARC-V replacement, which is more boat than vehicle. The LARC-Vs will be retained in service post 2020 following a LOTE (its second) due to get underway soon.

Defence Technology Review : DTR DEC JAN 2015, Page 1

Despite the Army's increasingly amphibious focus, neither the CRV Concept of Operations document or list of requirements call for any measure of amphibious capability for those vehicles. Not even swimming to cross water obstacles inland. Only fording gets a mention. So if the water is deeper than the hull is high the CRV won't be crossing it.

Perhaps this is a recognition also that the CRV can't really be amphibious at a combat weight of 32-33 tonnes (or 36 tonnes in the case of Boxer with turret). This, however, hasn't stopped the USMC pushing ahead with its Amphibious Combat Vehicle 1.1 program, which will be in the 30 tonne GVM range.

More on ACV 1.1 here:

Defence Technology Review : DTR APR 2015, Page 1

 

[Stock]

My great Uncle was at Gallipoli and was KIA on 8/8/1915 at Chunuk Bair. He lies in an unknown grave along with the other 631 Commonwealth soldiers. I have another great uncle KIA during WW! and one KIA in Greece during WW2. My father and another 6 uncles came home from WW2 safe in body, but like the WW1 vets they all had their torment that they carried around. They never spoke about it except amongst themselves and usually only after some beers and spirits. Very staunch the ANZACs. Those of my generation from my family who served in the forces got told the stories about some of the mischief they got up to and we were told the serious side too making sure that we understood what we might have to face.

They shall grow not old, as we that are left grow old;
Age shall not weary them, nor the years condemn.
At the going down of the sun and in the morning
We will remember them.
We will remember them.

We will always remember.

Born and raised in western Sydney, my great, great uncle (Stephen Shadlow) was working as a bricklayer in Marton, on the North Island when the war broke out. So, to stay with his Kiwi mates one imagines, he joined up to fight at the Wanganui recruiting station.

He landed at Gallipoli with the Wellington Infantry Battalion on the night of 25 April and was killed by artillery fire on 29 April.

An Aussie who died fighting for New Zealand. Hard to get more ANZAC than that!

RIP old mate.

 

[MARKMILES77]

There is footage of that particular setup dating back to 2013. My guess is that it was being offered as a replacement for the LARC-Vs which were looking to be decommissioned. They are remaining in service now so it's less of a requirement.
I can't confirm if the dates match up though.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=bhYf5rZr-Jw

Yes, that is it.
Clearly not photoshopped!
Had one swimming at Williamstown Shipyard in 2013 from the uploading date of the video.
So BAE must have been promoting this for at least 18 months.

 

[Goknub]

I can't see it being able to find a good niche in the ADF.

There are better options for moving mischievous loads to shore and it would be less viable in an assault compared to AAVs. Back on land, between the Bushmasters, Hawkeis and other Land 121 vehicles the Army has pretty much every role covered.

The maintenance cost would not seem worth it.

I was always curious why the Brits chose these articulated tracked vehicles for deployment to Afghanistan. Wheeled MRAP-type vehicles seemed more logical but they obviously worked.

 

[Stock]

I can't see it being able to find a good niche in the ADF.

There are better options for moving mischievous loads to shore and it would be less viable in an assault compared to AAVs. Back on land, between the Bushmasters, Hawkeis and other Land 121 vehicles the Army has pretty much every role covered.

The maintenance cost would not seem worth it.

I was always curious why the Brits chose these articulated tracked vehicles for deployment to Afghanistan. Wheeled MRAP-type vehicles seemed more logical but they obviously worked.

The Royal Marine Viking articulated vehicles were popular, and followed by the Army's Warthog built by STK (Singapore), which proved well protected and very mobile in difficult terrain.

 

[Waylander]

I took some rides in our Hägglunds during my service time. Their difficult terrain capabilities are impressive. Sometimes you get the feeling to drive vertically upwards over steap obstacles. It can go were not many other vehicles are able to operate.

And it's quite roomy for it's size, too. Our mountain troops like them very much.

 

[Stock]

I took some rides in our Hägglunds during my service time. Their difficult terrain capabilities are impressive. Sometimes you get the feeling to drive vertically upwards over steap obstacles. It can go were not many other vehicles are able to operate.

And it's quite roomy for it's size, too. Our mountain troops like them very much.

I have seen images of Warthog in Afghanistan negotiating steep and wide irrigation ditches and wadis that would prove very awkward for a wheeled vehicle.

 

[bdique]

I can't see it being able to find a good niche in the ADF.

There are better options for moving mischievous loads to shore and it would be less viable in an assault compared to AAVs. Back on land, between the Bushmasters, Hawkeis and other Land 121 vehicles the Army has pretty much every role covered.

The maintenance cost would not seem worth it.

I was always curious why the Brits chose these articulated tracked vehicles for deployment to Afghanistan. Wheeled MRAP-type vehicles seemed more logical but they obviously worked.

LARC-Vs are not assault vehicles. They ferry logistics from ship to shore. Think of them as amphib utility trucks.

Regarding articulated vehicles, IIRC the roads were in generally bad condition and terrain there generally not conducive for straightforward motorised operations, not something you could simply move at high speeds without risk of overturning, getting stuck or giving everyone motion sickness etc. We're talking the need to cross ditches and water obstacles without significantly slowing down.

 

[Volkodav]

I have long thought that BVS10, Viking, Warthog would be an extremely useful capability for the ADF, not so much for its amphibious capability but its soft ground and extreme terrain performance. There are places this type of vehicle can go that nothing else can, carrying useful loads, full infantry section, even mortar and VSRAD (RBS70) versions. They can be lifted by a Chinook, making them highly mobile and able to go wherever the infantry needs, unlike any of the ADFs in-service armoured vehicles.

 

[Stock]

I have long thought that BVS10, Viking, Warthog would be an extremely useful capability for the ADF, not so much for its amphibious capability but its soft ground and extreme terrain performance. There are places this type of vehicle can go that nothing else can, carrying useful loads, full infantry section, even mortar and VSRAD (RBS70) versions. They can be lifted by a Chinook, making them highly mobile and able to go wherever the infantry needs, unlike any of the ADFs in-service armoured vehicles.

I second that. Particularly pertinent when the 33-36 tonne GVM of the ASLAV replacement (CRV) under Land 400 is taken into account and the mobility restrictions it will have.

 

[bdique]

I second that. Particularly pertinent when the 33-36 tonne GVM of the ASLAV replacement (CRV) under Land 400 is taken into account and the mobility restrictions it will have.

ASLAV is armed with a 25mm main gun. None of these platforms (BvS10, Viking, Warthog, Bronco) presently look able to support such a weapon system while being able to ferry a good number of troops. It might also raise the CG to unacceptable levels.

Now, on the other hand, and I know this is straying pretty far out, but if we are talking about the MSV...

 

[Stock]

ASLAV is armed with a 25mm main gun. None of these platforms (BvS10, Viking, Warthog, Bronco) presently look able to support such a weapon system while being able to ferry a good number of troops. It might also raise the CG to unacceptable levels.

Now, on the other hand, and I know this is straying pretty far out, but if we are talking about the MSV...

Wasn't suggesting that a tracked articulated vehicle would be a suitable CRV candidate, only that they would be handy to have for their excellent mobility in difficult terrain and when conditions are not conducive to heavy wheeled platforms, such as monsoon season across Australia's regional neighbourhood. Perhaps equipping the combat service support battalions, but not the ACR under Beersheba.

As for the MSV, it will likely be based on a version of the (probably) tracked IFV to be acquired under Phase 3 of Land 400 and will be in the region of 30-35 tonnes I suspect.