Royal Australian Air Force [RAAF] News, Discussions and Updates
Its much more than a training capability. Look at what a single KC-30A is achieving in Iraq right now? Whilst that aircraft is on operations there, we have other KC-30A's supporting fighter deployments to Guam and training needs domestically. Even with a fleet of 4x B707's we were able to support operational detachments of 2x refuellers, 5 brand new aircraft is obviously an improvement on that, so I think it is a bit of an overly negative view to consider 5x KC-30A's as only a 'training' capability.
However it is not a fleet designed to support large scale, high intensity combat operations, even with a tactical fighter force of our size. Such would require a significantly expanded fleet.
Personally I think an expanded fleet to 8 would satisfy every refuelling requirement (for fast movers and large jets) as well as deployment support missions we will have short of WW3 starting, with room to include a VIP outfitted aircraft (or 2) within that fleet...
t68
Well-Known Member
Your right it's not a fleet designed around a consistent high intensity combat ops, I can't confirm numbers overall as the numbers would go up and down but non US AAR aircraft in theatre is roughly five aircraft at anyone time plus the US which I have yet to determine. All aircraft involed in the ME use each others assets when needed.
A flight of RAAF Hornets are not always tanking of RAAF assets even when one is avalible. I believe in a RAAF context the eight aircraft you mentioned would be the minimum needed as each Squadron should always have accses to an KC30A on call for concurrent training or whatever the need. PM would most likely need a backup aircraft on longhaul VIP fleets which should in theory be known far in advance and whilst the aircraft are relatively young at the moment they are ageing all the same so we need to take into account unexpected problems.*
Whislt this is not really an accurate way to measure the numbers need. But the USAF has approx 460 AAR with approx 2000 fighter aircraft which a equal to 1-AAR to 4.3 fighter aircraft. The RAAF currently has a ratio of 1x KC30A to 19.2 fighters and this will increase when KC30A is cleared for C17-E7A & P8, as I said its not the correct way to look but it gives an indication on numbers to which they have to support, for that reason I see the need for a Squadron sized 12 aircraft.
I also don't believe that the PM should be using an aircraft that shovels between VIP and basic transport or AAR duties if the PM has a need for an A330 sized plane then I can't see why he/she do not have a dedicated aircraft
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Still subject to the DWP which is a couple of months away.
Bluey 006
Active Member
I'd like to see it increased by one extra beyond the the proposed two ( 3 in total), so that we have 8 x KC-30A (1 in VIP configuration) leaving 7 for AAR and transport.
This allows us to comfortably deploy pairs on two different deployments and have three in Australia for training, maintenance and local operations ( if required).
Bluey 006
Active Member
F/a-xx
Interested to hear peoples thoughts as to the possibility of seeing some indications (however tiny) of a changed outlook for our future fighter force in the upcoming DWP
Perhaps the F/A-XX or Next Generation Air Dominance fighter as it is now known. Or perhaps one of the UCAS in development to replace the Super Hornets instead of an all F-35 route.
Something about having all your eggs in one basket springs to mind.
Interested to hear peoples thoughts as to the possibility of seeing some indications (however tiny) of a changed outlook for our future fighter force in the upcoming DWP
Perhaps the F/A-XX or Next Generation Air Dominance fighter as it is now known. Or perhaps one of the UCAS in development to replace the Super Hornets instead of an all F-35 route.
Something about having all your eggs in one basket springs to mind.
It will all depend on timing, if there is no F/A-XX (or whatever) ready in the required timeframe it won't happen. If there is something available it will come down to whatever best suits our requirements at the time, i.e. a new strike fighter, later block F-35A, Bs for the RAN, or UCAVs.
This is the first time I have seen Air Marshal Brown say that it's 12-15 P-8 and 7 Tritons
Asia Pacific Defence Reporter : APDR 02 2015, Page 1
USN are keen to replace the Super Hornet with F/A-XX apparently.
Ours by and large are newer than theirs...
Of course, its many, many years off and could even be just a later block variant of F-35 at the end of the day.
Still, its worth considering. As much as I am a huge fan of the F-35, not putting all our eggs into one basket, is a very sound idea. Super Hornet with upgrades will be good until at least 2030, particularly in 'quarter backing' support roles for the F-35 and as an escort for high value assets, two seat CAS machine etc.
Nick underscore
Member
Already mentioned 3 weeks back...
dam..goes to show with age, I have less than a 3 week memory.
USN are keen to replace the Super Hornet with F/A-XX apparently.
The US Navy has barely started to even conceptualize the F/A-XX and there is very little money in the upcoming budget for it. Most optimistically, the USN couldn't expect any prototype to fly before the late 2030s and that is extremely optimistic. And optimism is not something one associates with the schedule for the development of a radically new sixth generation fighter.
The US Navy has barely started to even conceptualize the F/A-XX and there is very little money in the upcoming budget for it. Most optimistically, the USN couldn't expect any prototype to fly before the late 2030s and that is extremely optimistic. And optimism is not something one associates with the schedule for the development of a radically new sixth generation fighter.
Bluey 006
Active Member
I disagree! The Super Hornets will reach the end of their service life (9000 hours) in the late 2020's early 2030's depending on operational tempo. The F-35 while a great aircraft isn't the be all and end all (after all it paid a huge price aerodynamically and conceptually in order to include the STOVL requirement) , and I don't see the USN relying on only a single aircraft type for strike/AA roles. By then the F-22 will be over 25 years old as well.
By the mid-late 2020s - China, Russia and potentially India among others will have advanced 5th generation fighters and UCAVs that come close to matching existing aircraft (likely in larger numbers - remember the F-22 final procurement tally is 187) . Anti-access/area-denial (A2/AD) capabilities of many nations will be highly effective. Advances in multi-band radar and high speed computing will mean the stealth technology on 5th generation fighter aircraft is no longer the silver bullet it once was.
The geopolitical situation will have changed to the point that we genuinely are in a multi-polar world (with serious competitors to US primacy) rather than uni-polar world that has existed since the early 90s. (This among other factors will create a sense of urgency that was not there for the F-35).
The delays,cost blow outs and problems of the F-35 highlight the long lead times required to field an advanced aircraft with a significant qualitative edge, and conflicting requirements (eg Airforce,Marines,Navy). I do not believe the US will make the same mistakes again, or accept a capability gap/loss of qualitative edge. They can't afford to or their multi-billion dollar carriers will lose much of their teeth. Remember carriers despite their weaknesses are a key instrument of national power, and domination of the global commons.
3D printing and associated technologies will make development of a 6th generation fighter a lot more effective and efficient than the previous generations. What historically took weeks/months will be done in days/weeks (see here -Link).
Once the F-35 is at full rate production , I am tipping we will see a lot of movement in this space (SH replacement). Air to Air/ Air-Ground combat is not going anywhere soon - if it is the F/A-XX,UCAV, or something else (potentially radically different) that is another story. But in IMHO the USN will replace the Super Hornet with a new aircraft other than the F-35, and we should too.
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eg
3D printing: Australian researchers create jet engine, breakthrough captures attention of Airbus and Boeing - ABC News (Australian Broadcasting Corporation)
but, the tech defence issues are also going to be slightly different
LO will still be useful against certain peers, and its the sensor and weapons fitouts that will be critical. eg the ability to mount hypersonics on anything with the right buss changes force capability considerably
t68
Well-Known Member
Five aircrew in training with the USN electronic attack basic flying course, and are going to continue training with the US Pacfic fleet.
I imagine these are just the EWO and not pilots or would these be pilot and EWO?
Do the pilots of the G need any additional training?
http://www.navy.mil/submit/display.asp?story_id=85841
I imagine these are just the EWO and not pilots or would these be pilot and EWO?
Do the pilots of the G need any additional training?
http://www.navy.mil/submit/display.asp?story_id=85841
Bluey 006
Active Member
Eggs and Bacon on JSF
Lockheed Martin Corp’s F-35 Joint Strike Fighter will start “ski-jump testing” at a Maryland air base this week, while another B-model jet wraps up six months of tests at temperatures as low as minus 40 degrees Fahrenheit (minus 40 Celsius) to as high as 120 F (49 C)
Source: Global Aviation
is 49C really all that extreme in Northern-Central Australia?
Temperature ranges at Tindal
Temperatures climb towards 50C at start of 2014
Have they done testing as to what happens after 49C? Few hours in the sun on the runway at Tindal and an aircraft could easily reach 49C
Just a thought....
Lockheed Martin Corp’s F-35 Joint Strike Fighter will start “ski-jump testing” at a Maryland air base this week, while another B-model jet wraps up six months of tests at temperatures as low as minus 40 degrees Fahrenheit (minus 40 Celsius) to as high as 120 F (49 C)
Source: Global Aviation
is 49C really all that extreme in Northern-Central Australia?
Temperature ranges at Tindal
Temperatures climb towards 50C at start of 2014
Have they done testing as to what happens after 49C? Few hours in the sun on the runway at Tindal and an aircraft could easily reach 49C
Just a thought....
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t68
Well-Known Member
That would be in direct light, if the aircraft are under shelter ambient temp would still be high but might be a couple of degrees cooler under the shelter, but temp have reached in the lower fifties in the middle east. How are the current S Hornets stored in the ME at the moment.
ambient temp and tarmac temp
they're quoting ambient
they're quoting ambient
Very interesting article, thanks for that. I have been of the belief for a while now that 3D printing will see a revitalization of local manufacturing as it, combined with other smart manufacturing technologies, will in the not too distant future make it cheaper to manufacture locally than to import products under even the most lop sided FTAs. Factor in our abundant natural resources, engineering and scientific knowhow and it will make no sense whatsoever to import anything.
Considering that the US has airbases of their own that are as hot as anywhere in Australia, plus have had aircraft based in the Middle East for decades, I'm sure the planes won't fall out of the sky at 50 degrees Celsius.