Mexico's military defense

[naiveessene]

Mexico's military defense. They need new but affordable equipment in their inventory. Something they need to invest in are tanks. M60 Patton main battle tanks would be a good candidate I believe. They should stock pile on old ww2 and up equipment. Affordable equipment from back then like artillery, anti-aircraft weapons, anti-tank etc. For the air force, they should invest in a few 4th generation fighter jets like f-16 , Rafale, or the Typhoon. And stock pile on older 3rd generation fighter jets, like the f-5 , mig 21 to compliment the newer fighters. For the navy, they should invest on a aircraft carrier, they could buy an old one and just upgrade it. What are your thoughts on this? Even though Mexico's neutral should they still be prepared?

 

[Rimasta]

Mexico's military defense. They need new but affordable equipment in their inventory. Something they need to invest in are tanks. M60 Patton main battle tanks would be a good candidate I believe. They should stock pile on old ww2 and up equipment. Affordable equipment from back then like artillery, anti-aircraft weapons, anti-tank etc. For the air force, they should invest in a few 4th generation fighter jets like f-16 , Rafale, or the Typhoon. And stock pile on older 3rd generation fighter jets, like the f-5 , mig 21 to compliment the newer fighters. For the navy, they should invest on a aircraft carrier, they could buy an old one and just upgrade it. What are your thoughts on this? Even though Mexico's neutral should they still be prepared?

Why does Mexico need to upgrade and modernize its entire military? The country teeters on the definition of a failed state that can't seem to provide for its citizens security and well being.

Mexico also has no real nation state competitors requiring such a pricey overhaul of its armed forces. They should invest that money elsewhere, they don't need MBT's, fighter jets, and aircraft carriers.

 

[STURM]

What are your thoughts on this?

Mexico's main concern is the internal threats the country faces, not external threats. There is little need to allocate substantial funds for external security given that Mexico faces little or no external threats from state actors.

 

[Feanor]

Mexico's main concern is the internal threats the country faces, not external threats. There is little need to allocate substantial funds for external security given that Mexico faces little or no external threats from state actors.

Given how close Mexico is to being a failed state, I think the military can and should be used internally. A well paid, professional military, that stands apart from the corrupt officials and general population could be a guarantor of Mexican statehood against internal threats.

 

[swerve]

Aircraft carrier? What for? Where & how would it be used?

Tanks - ditto. Where is the enemy these tanks might be used against?

Mexico needs aircraft to patrol its airspace & intercept drug smugglers & the like, MPAs to catch smugglers, pirates, & illegal fishermen, patrol boats ditto, border guards & internal security forces. Funnily enough, this is how Mexico spends almost all its military budget.

Mexico can't fight the USA & nobody else can attack it directly.

 

[Rimasta]

Given how close Mexico is to being a failed state, I think the military can and should be used internally. A well paid, professional military, that stands apart from the corrupt officials and general population could be a guarantor of Mexican statehood against internal threats.

It is being used internally. There are Mexican soldiers with assault rifles patrolling much of the country. They've been deployed for some years now, and the levels of violence and disappearances have only increased. I've heard reports of corruption even in the Mexican military. Remember, some of the cartels are run by ex-Mexican Special Forces/Counter-Narcotics troops who realized they could make a lot more money by going into business for themselves with their skill sets.

I've heard reports of raids by Mexican Marines into neighborhoods in the early morning hours, "looking for cartel members", and people are taken away for questioning or even asked just to step just outside their homes and NEVER heard from again. It's a very common story there. I think they (the military) can & should be a part of the solution, but so far they've been ineffective at stopping the chaos. When towns and villages feel compelled to form their own vigilante militias for self-defense, I think it speaks volumes about people's confidence in their governments ability to protect and defend them. Corruption, is what's eating Mexico alive and is in my view, the greatest threat Mexico faces.

 

[STURM]

Troops are also deployed at oil refineries. A major problem is the theft of oil and intimidation of workers by cartels.

If I recall correctly, there was a plan by the Mexican Navy to get Su-27s few years ago. Not sure why Su-27s were needed but the plan was binned.

 

[John Fedup]

Corruption, is what's eating Mexico alive and is in my view, the greatest threat Mexico faces.

Cartels have infiltrated all Mexican police operations so it stands to reason the military is just as vulnerable. You are absolutely correct, corruption is the greatest threat and fast jets or tanks are not effective tools for fighting this threat.

 

[Feanor]

It is being used internally. There are Mexican soldiers with assault rifles patrolling much of the country. They've been deployed for some years now, and the levels of violence and disappearances have only increased. I've heard reports of corruption even in the Mexican military. Remember, some of the cartels are run by ex-Mexican Special Forces/Counter-Narcotics troops who realized they could make a lot more money by going into business for themselves with their skill sets.

I've heard reports of raids by Mexican Marines into neighborhoods in the early morning hours, "looking for cartel members", and people are taken away for questioning or even asked just to step just outside their homes and NEVER heard from again. It's a very common story there. I think they (the military) can & should be a part of the solution, but so far they've been ineffective at stopping the chaos. When towns and villages feel compelled to form their own vigilante militias for self-defense, I think it speaks volumes about people's confidence in their governments ability to protect and defend them. Corruption, is what's eating Mexico alive and is in my view, the greatest threat Mexico faces.

They probably need to be 1) better paid and 2) more carefully selected.

 

[John Fedup]

They probably need to be 1) better paid and 2) more carefully selected.

It must be awfully hard for the Mexican government to compete against the financial power of the Cartels with respect to police salaries or for that matter any other government officials that Cartels want to control. As for selection, even saints would be tempted by the money these criminals have available. It is truly a difficult task. Just look at the corruption during the Capone era and that was in a country that had a reasonably long-term experience with the rule of law, something that is somewhat lacking in Mexico. Until the US figures out how to deal with the demand problem, this problem will continue.

 

[swerve]

Yeah.

The Zetas started out as Mexican army commandos. A large group of them (reports say 30+) joined a drug gang as enforcers, lured by a former army officer who offered them loadsa money. At least one (their commander) had been on the gang payroll for some time before he & the rest deserted to become full-time gangsters. Being the best trained, most disciplined drug gang enforcers, they were rather successful, & eventually set up on their own, presumably with new recruits they'd trained to their own standard, or other special forces they'd lured to join them.

The most extreme example I know of, but it shows what can happen in Mexico.

 

[bdique]

Mexico's military defense. They need new but affordable equipment in their inventory. Something they need to invest in are tanks. M60 Patton main battle tanks would be a good candidate I believe. They should stock pile on old ww2 and up equipment. Affordable equipment from back then like artillery, anti-aircraft weapons, anti-tank etc. [snip] What are your thoughts on this? Even though Mexico's neutral should they still be prepared?

You'll wanna get something other than the M60. The 105mm main gun will have limited use against other MBTs, the design is old, there's probably not much room for further upgrades, but if the point is to get a tracked/wheeled armoured system for supporting infantry, then you'd be better off getting something like a medium tank, especially if the purpose is for supporting domestic operations.

And if we want to talk about that, Mexico needs decent, modern IFVs to have a proper armoured force. No point sending in armour without infantry support. Raising proper armoured battalions/brigades is going to be complex and costly. Will be great if these developments can take place, but I'm not betting money on any of that happening anytime soon.

 

[swerve]

Why will it be great? Why do you think Mexico needs this equipment? Where & how will it be used? What MBTs are there anywhere that Mexican M60s might fight? Is Mexico going to invade someone? Who? What tanks do they have? Is Guatemala planning to try to conquer Mexico? With what?

Please, please, think a little.

 

[StobieWan]

UAV's, get some of the spare MRAP's lying around..they need surveillance and light transport. Tanks? Nah.

 

[Blackshoe]

UAV's, get some of the spare MRAP's lying around..they need surveillance and light transport. Tanks? Nah.

As I've mentioned before, the US has a billion or so (sarcastic number) spare MRAPs they'd be willing to let go cheap, so it shouldn't be hard to get them.

In fact, I'm somewhat surprised a lot of the stuff being given to civilian LE agencies in the US isn't being offered first to the Mexicans via either the Dept of State or DOD.

 

[StobieWan]

As I've mentioned before, the US has a billion or so (sarcastic number) spare MRAPs they'd be willing to let go cheap, so it shouldn't be hard to get them.

In fact, I'm somewhat surprised a lot of the stuff being given to civilian LE agencies in the US isn't being offered first to the Mexicans via either the Dept of State or DOD.

That's what I was thinking - I'm sure if the Mexicans sprang for shipping costs, they could have 'em for free if they were getting them back from Afhanistan, or could have done earlier. And given that the cartels will likely start using IED's a bit more in future if the police start taking scalps, you can see where I'm going with that...

 

[John Fedup]

That's what I was thinking - I'm sure if the Mexicans sprang for shipping costs, they could have 'em for free if they were getting them back from Afhanistan, or could have done earlier. And given that the cartels will likely start using IED's a bit more in future if the police start taking scalps, you can see where I'm going with that...

Who needs MRAPs more, the military or Police? Who should be the primary force going after the cartels? Since the threat is an internal one (albeit one with external complications), perhaps it should be the police (federal?). I don't know enough about the Mexican situation to guess which might be better.

 

[FormerDirtDart]

Well, according to this 2006 report:
http://www.globalsecurity.org/military/library/report/2006/ssi_nicholls-diez.pdf (pg 23)
The Mexican Army acquired some 136 Belgian AMX-13s.
Though, I haven't been able to find any other mentions of this acquisition, aside from multiple sources citing this same report.

 

[swerve]

Perhaps there is confusion between the AMX-13 & the AMX-VCI, the APC derived from the AMX-13. Mexico certainly has the AMX-VCI (locally refurbished & modernised), & Belgium used to operate it, & may have sold some to Mexico.

It's easy to find pictures online of Mexican AMX-VCIs, but I've not found a single Mexican AMX-13.

 

[Feanor]

As I've mentioned before, the US has a billion or so (sarcastic number) spare MRAPs they'd be willing to let go cheap, so it shouldn't be hard to get them.

In fact, I'm somewhat surprised a lot of the stuff being given to civilian LE agencies in the US isn't being offered first to the Mexicans via either the Dept of State or DOD.

It's kind of silly. USMC Reserve btlns are riding around in ancient humvees, but the police are being given shiny new MRAPs from USMC stocks.

Why will it be great? Why do you think Mexico needs this equipment? Where & how will it be used? What MBTs are there anywhere that Mexican M60s might fight? Is Mexico going to invade someone? Who? What tanks do they have? Is Guatemala planning to try to conquer Mexico? With what?

Please, please, think a little.

Maybe Mexico is planning to invade Guatemala. First Guatemala, then... THE WORLD.