I wonder if it would be worth while for the Army to eventually have an Armoured Regiment and a Cavalry Regiment concentrated at Pukapunyal or Edinburgh in addition to the squadrons embedded in the Armoured Cavalry Regiments. The idea would be to reinforce the new brigades as required, increasing the combat weight of the Army as a whole, as well as providing a repository of knowledge and doctrine for the RAAC.
t68
Well-Known Member
I knew they were talking about it, didn't know the actually ordered the extra MBT's
No when they are due to arrive?
Interesting, thanks for the post Raven. Time frame for AAV's I find fascinating 
I would assume AAV meaning LVTP-7's ? Where would they come from ? No one has any to spare that I am aware of, doubt the USMC will give any up, and there is not anything else viable for use with the LHD's that I am aware of ? and the ACV is a loooong way off
Are Samsung Techwin still producing that anyone knows of ?
Timing also interesting with the White Paper on the way, to late to throw their hat in the ring I would imagine, so what has already been discussed to be put into place for Army in it
Cheers
Just found this
http://defence-blog.com/?p=1449
Samsung Techwin possible new build AAV's
I would assume AAV meaning LVTP-7's ? Where would they come from ? No one has any to spare that I am aware of, doubt the USMC will give any up, and there is not anything else viable for use with the LHD's that I am aware of ? and the ACV is a loooong way off
Are Samsung Techwin still producing that anyone knows of ?
Timing also interesting with the White Paper on the way, to late to throw their hat in the ring I would imagine, so what has already been discussed to be put into place for Army in it
Cheers
Just found this
http://defence-blog.com/?p=1449
Samsung Techwin possible new build AAV's
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The presentation would be referring to the extra tanks being procured to raise the third tank squadron as part of Plan BEERSHEEBA. Of note, the tanks haven't actaully been ordered yet, as as far as I know the government hasn't actually approved the purchase.
While it is (I think) very unlikely, it is possible that even more tanks could be bought to do Plan BEERSHEBA properly. For example, to realise strategic guidance on capability, a total of 140 M1 variants would be required (this would include gun tanks, recovery vehicles and engineering variants). Of course, that is effective,y a doubling of current numbers and would be expensive. There are a number of ways this could be achieved, the simplest of which being procuring them under Land 907 Phase 2, which is effectively the M1 half-life upgrade/capability assurance program. This project will see a whole raft of upgrades to the tanks to maintain the capability out to at least 2030.
This upgrade project is interesting in itself, as the U.S. Army is retiring the M1A1 in the near future, leaving the USMC as the sole users of that variant. It is entirely possible our current tanks could be upgraded to M1A2s to maintain commonality with the U.S. Army. For that matter, it is entirely possible that new M1A2s will be bought to replace the current tanks, as it may be cheaper to do that than upgrade our current tanks.
On that note, and hilariously, that option is seen as a possibility for the ARH upgrade program. Based on just how inefficient the whole Tiger project is, it is seen as likely that it would be cheaper to simply buy brand new AH-64Es to replace the Tigers than upgrade them to serve to their expected life of type. It probably won't happen for political reasons, but it does show how useless buying European helicopters is.
kind of vindicates all those people who wanted Apaches and were ignored, A few army stars should be more than red faced about it....
I think it's important to point out, there are lots of requirements shown in thst presentation, but it doesn't mean it's going to happen. There are currently no open projects for most of those requirements, and there is no money budgeted for them. Hence, it is unlikely that many of the requirements will be realised, at least any time soon.Interesting, thanks for the post Raven. Time frame for AAV's I find fascinating
I would assume AAV meaning LVTP-7's ? Where would they come from ? No one has any to spare that I am aware of, doubt the USMC will give any up, and there is not anything else viable for use with the LHD's that I am aware of ? and the ACV is a loooong way off
Are Samsung Techwin still producing that anyone knows of ?
Timing also interesting with the White Paper on the way, to late to throw their hat in the ring I would imagine, so what has already been discussed to be put into place for Army in it
Cheers
Just found this
South Korea
Samsung Techwin possible new build AAV's
Which is a shame. While the Air Force is getting billions of dollars thrown at it for requirements that don't exist, and the navy is getting even more thrown at it just to subsidise Australian industry, a mere fraction of that could completely revolutionise army capability.
I hear you, always a distant third until things are needed then they are rushed purchases
The new LHD's are a direct legacy of Gen Cosgrove pushing to get them for Army as a result of some of the logistics analysis of ET.
Well the Army did want new Blackhawks instead of the MRH90, but got what the government chose for political and industry reasons. Pretty much the same as the RAN has suffering for decades, instead of getting what they need, let alone what they want, they get what suits the political and industrial wants of the government of the day, be it Swedish subs, European torpedoes, rebuilt forty year old helicopters, Spanish frigates masquerading as destroyers, I could go on.
the successful selection for B1 wasn't even on the initial selection list.
selected as it was in a politically sensitive/vulnerable seat which they wanted to maintain a grip on.
B1, I am not familiar with that?
Referring initially to the rounding out of the current plan to create 3x Beersheba Brigades and the additional tanks needed for that, but plans change...
Army once vehemently said NO to HIMARS as well...
The new HQ at Bungendore I believe...
got it in one
Overtook 3 M1, s on the way to work this morning. Civvy transports includeing 3 hilux, s with wide load signs. Wonder how much it costs for civvy transports. I know when I worked for Halliburton, the cost moving tools, to Karatha from Darwin was incredible, and they only weighed about 3 tons.
I actually wonder if there was an audit of all the outsourced functions that defence, or for that matter government, used to do for themselves if it would find that the outsourcing was more expensive, less efficient, involved pork barrelling and possibly corruption.
Back to the topic at hand I just read an article on 3Bde with some nice photos. I must say the infantry section has really changed since my day, apart from Styers there were Minimis, Maximis, a Carl Gustav and a HK417 DMR, all the sort of stuff we used to dream about but never thought we'd see.
Nick underscore
Member
Will not the ARES Recce/ Light horse sqdns fill the role in terms of troops? I realise they are training on different vehicles, but LAND 400 should change that training to some degree.
Not sure above 3 Armoured Sqdns we need. (I presume the 70 number will fill the 3 Sqdn requirement).
I think to complete Beersheeba, we need another RAR Btn as part of ARG 'readiness cycle'. Someone mentioned this before and the more I think on this the more I agree.. Maybe even cycle a Kiwi rifle coy on perm rotation through Townsville instead..
Finally, in terms of equipment.. 18 x HIMARS to fill out the Arty numbers. AAV7's if you can find them and no more than 28-36. Then turn to army and say that's your lot..
Cost always an issue
The current situation by which 2 RAR is the dedicated amphibious battalion is really only an interim solution to raise the capability. It has yet to be decided what the enduring solution will be to maintain the capability. There are lots of options, including maintaining 2 RAR as the dedicated battalion, rotating the capability within a single brigade and rotating the capability across all three brigades.
Probably the only option that will see any of the extra capabilities in the presentation realised is for 2 RAR to be disbanded. If a decision is made to rotate the capability, you no longer need a dedicated battalion, and therefore you no longer need the 'spare' seventh battalion which is 2 RAR. As it is not money that is army's biggest problem with Beersheba it is personnel numbers, by disbanding 2 RAR you would free up 600+ soldiers that can be used elsewhere in army. You could have recon scouts in the ACRs, man HIMARs in a deep fires regiment, fully man each gun regiment to allow for a full compliment of M777s, man an under armour breach capability, increase the CSS for everything etc. It would actually solve a lot of problems.
Nick underscore
Member
Cheers Raven.
would be a shame to re-role 2RAR for amphib ops and then look to re-allocate numbers elsewhere, assuming a brigade rotation was adopted as the perm solution. Understand its a trade-off against realising new capabilties or complete out current capabilities in some cases..Understand that ARA is to increase to ~31.5k throughout this year and next?
Thanks also for the response on the typo in the presentation. Seems obvious now you have pointed that out its a mixup with 6th bgde..
Any other options for the enduring solution, besides what you have mentioned above?