Indian Navy Discussions and Updates

[colay]

I

For all its faults it has been a busy carrier since it has been commissioned, and it is the only carrier outside of US service that can handle Hawkeyes.

Indeed, she has made her presence felt and demonstrated the value of carrier-based air power.

 

[StobieWan]

Yes, they'd need a beefed-up version of those old British catapults - but they existed, & were used by the RN to launch fully-laden F-4Ks & Buccaneers. AFAIK the design drawings still exist for all the models.


Absolutely. And that Israeli kit had already been ordered for the IN's older Sea Harriers when India decided that the ex-RN SHARs were useless without Blue Vixen & AIM-120. Doh! Somehow, even opening negotiations with the Israelis on doing the same for the ex-RAN airframes was too difficult. Amazing.

You'd have thought that was a shoe-in - Shar2's nose was a bit bigger than Shar1, more room, less hassle - a lot of the harness and stuff would have been similar/same.

Ah well - as far as I understand it the Indian Shar's have been languishing due to a lack of spares with few hours flown anyway.

 

[AegisFC]

Absolutely. And that Israeli kit had already been ordered for the IN's older Sea Harriers when India decided that the ex-RN SHARs were useless without Blue Vixen & AIM-120. Doh! Somehow, even opening negotiations with the Israelis on doing the same for the ex-RAN airframes was too difficult. Amazing.

Assuming you meant ex-RN airframes... :
I'd love to hear the real story how India screwed up that deal since the USMC ended up picking them all up for next to nothing to keep their fleet of planes limping.

You'd have thought that was a shoe-in - Shar2's nose was a bit bigger than Shar1, more room, less hassle - a lot of the harness and stuff would have been similar/same.

Ah well - as far as I understand it the Indian Shar's have been languishing due to a lack of spares with few hours flown anyway.

I am also sure India has the worst accident rate of any Harrier user as well.

 

[StobieWan]

The USMC got the Gr7's and 9's - the Shar2's are still knocking around in the UK I *think* - there's some at Culdrose for ground training. The SHAR's were offered up some time back, well before the 2010 SDSR with the subsequent disposal of the Harrier force.

Mind, the Indians had the chance to bid on the 7/9 force as well I guess - and that was a pretty good fleet of cabs with spares, and they were in the middle of an upgrade program- bargain if you were in the STOVL business.

 

[swerve]

Assuming you meant ex-RN airframes... :....

Oops! Finger/brain disconnect.

 

[RobWilliams]

Looking up more about the Sea Gripen and this nugget popped up

Brazilian F-X2 deal gives fresh impetus to Saab's Sea Gripen concept - IHS Jane's 360

Further to the opportunities afforded by the F-X2 deal, the source told IHS Jane's that discussions with India have been taking place behind the scenes. "There has been a conversation with the Indian Navy, which is looking at the Sea Gripen separate to the [Indian Air Force] MMRCA [Medium MultiRole Combat Aircraft requirement]," he said, adding: "The Indian Navy [interest in Sea Gripen] never went away."

...

As Saab is pitching the Sea Gripen for 'short take-off, but arrested recovery' (STOBAR) operations, it does not need to be equipped with the nosewheel-mounted launch bar required for 'catapult-assisted take-off, but arrested recovery' (CATOBAR) ships. As such, it could operate from both types of carriers, making it a suitable option for the Indian Navy's STOBAR ships INS Viraat and INS Vikramaditya , and future indigenous carrier; as well as the Brazilian Navy's CATOBAR Sao Paulo (it should be noted that the lack of a 'ski jump' on this ship might present issues in terms of the Sea Gripen's maximum take-off weight).

So in theory, Sea Gripens would be viable for the Navy for the lifetimes of both INS Vikramaditya & the future INS Vikrant under construction, but also for the even further into the future INS Vishal which may or may not use cats.

Interesting, but not realistic, they've bought MiG-29K's for the medium term for STOBAR ops. Plus, i'm fairly sure that wouldn't there need to be some undercarriage strengthening for catapult launches, so it's not such an easy transition as it would appear?

 

[AegisFC]

So in theory, Sea Gripens would be viable for the Navy for the lifetimes of both INS Vikramaditya & the future INS Vikrant under construction, but also for the even further into the future INS Vishal which may or may not use cats.

Interesting, but not realistic, they've bought MiG-29K's for the medium term for STOBAR ops. Plus, i'm fairly sure that wouldn't there need to be some undercarriage strengthening for catapult launches, so it's not such an easy transition as it would appear?

This doesn't make sense. The IN is slated to buy a naval variant of the Tejas as well as MiG-29K. A third model of the same type of plane doesn't make much sense.

 

[StobieWan]

This doesn't make sense. The IN is slated to buy a naval variant of the Tejas as well as MiG-29K. A third model of the same type of plane doesn't make much sense.

Ah, but this is India

Be interesting - I suppose the LCA and Gripen both use the same engine, or a very close relative. Not sure where that'd leave the 29K's tho..

Nah, even for India's procurement strategy..bit of a stretch.

 

[Volkodav]

Ah, but this is India

Be interesting - I suppose the LCA and Gripen both use the same engine, or a very close relative. Not sure where that'd leave the 29K's tho..

Nah, even for India's procurement strategy..bit of a stretch.

Then again India also has a track record for having fall back solutions when their domestic projects face delays or have performance issues. The Sea Gripen, or even the Gripen could be such a fall back option for the Tejas.

You would still see the Tejas in service in limited numbers getting the bugs ironed out on the way to a much improved Mk 2 model while the Gripen / Sea Gripen get significant orders to fill the gap left by the reduction in orders for Tejas Mk1. The much improved Tejas Mk2 comes along a decade or so later, replaces the Mk1, Mig 29 and older Gripens.

 

[dragonfire]

India Navy Legendary Aircraft carrier has entered into area of Operation in north Westren Arabian Sea Accompanied by other three vessels...


Though it Commissioned along back into Indian Navy It took a long time to reach Indian Shores..

After commissioning, the carrier began a non-stop 8500 nautical mile journey to its homeport at INS Kadamba, Karwar, from Severodvinsk on 27 November 2013.[13] It is under the command of Commodore Suraj Berry, who is her first Indian captain.[69] Apart from her Indian crew, she also carried 177 Russian specialists from Sevmash, who will remain on-board for one year, as part of the 20-year post-warranty services contract with the shipyard. During the journey, it encountered a storm in the Barents Sea and finally dropped anchor in Kola Bay, off the port of Murmansk on 1 December, which is 215 nautical miles away from Severodvinsk. Here, she linked up with her escorts, frigate INS Trikand and fleet tanker INS Deepak, was refueled and left the port on 8 December.[72] The group was escorted by HMS Monmouth of the Royal Navy while passing through the English Channel,[73] and was joined by destroyer INS Delhi near Gibraltar.[13]
The flotilla sailed in the Mediterranean sea, crossed the Suez Canal, and then the Red Sea.[70][74] On 1 January 2014, she entered the Arabian Sea near the Gulf of Aden, and was received by a flotilla from the Indian Navy's Western fleet led by the fleet commander Rear Admiral Anil Chawla.[75] The flotilla was composed of the aircraft carrier INS Viraat, two Delhi-class destroyers, three Talwar-class frigates, a Godavari-class frigate and a couple of offshore patrol vessels.[13]

INS Vikramaditya (R33) - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia

As per entry above She has sailed non-stop from 8th December from Murmansk and has been joined by various IN vessels along the ways finally entered India's maritime borders as part of 12 vessel flotilla. Less than a month from when it started. Shes home now FINALLY

 

[richardparker07]

India Navy Legendary Aircraft carrier has entered into area of Operation in north Westren Arabian Sea Accompanied by other three vessels...

Though it Commissioned along back into Indian Navy It took a long time to reach Indian Shores..

The Indian Navy has launched preparations to start flying operations from aircraft carrier INS Vikramaditya.

The MiG-29K fighter aircraft have started taking off from the ski-jump and making arrested landings.

Having finished training in Russia, 10 top naval pilots have returned home to operate from INS Vikramaditya, which is berthed at Karwar naval base.

Read more: Navy gets ready to start Vikramaditya flying ops | Mail Online

India's first domestically constructed nuclear submarine INS Arihant is to undergo sea trials in the next few weeks.

The submarine is undergoing harbour acceptance trials phase, and will then be launched for sea trials that are likely to be completed by the end of 2014.

INS Arihant set for sea trials - Naval Technology

 

[Bonza]

Richardparker, please stop posting copy-pastes of news items. We expect people here to engage and share their opinions, and copy-pasting of news articles without any personal content is against the rules. So please slow down, take the time to write your impressions or opinions of whatever it is you wish to discuss, and don't worry about just posting news items for their own sake. Thanks mate.

 

[richardparker07]

INS Vikrant (R11) is in Aution

The country’s first aircraft carrier, INS Vikrant (R11) a Warrior of sea who made INDIA victorious in 1971 was a Majestic class aircraft carrier of the Indian Navy.

She played a key role in enforcing the naval blockade on East Pakistan during the Indo-Pakistan War of 1971. This Ship has decommissioned in 1997 and preserved as Museum .

Indian Navy Admiral declared that they are going sell this Legendary Ship in Auction in this month... they took this decision just because they are unable to bear the cost of its maintenance and that too they are going to sell it for Rs 3.1 Cr..

Is Indian Defense Ministry facing such financial crisis , they are unable to maintain an legendary retired Air craft Carrier ??

 

[StobieWan]

It's not surprising - every other country ends up scrapping them or doing a SINKEX on ships like these - with no industrial partner to run the museum side of it, she's razor blades I suspect.

 

[dragonfire]

The country’s first aircraft carrier, INS Vikrant (R11) a Warrior of sea who made INDIA victorious in 1971 was a Majestic class aircraft carrier of the Indian Navy.

She played a key role in enforcing the naval blockade on East Pakistan during the Indo-Pakistan War of 1971. This Ship has decommissioned in 1997 and preserved as Museum .

Indian Navy Admiral declared that they are going sell this Legendary Ship in Auction in this month... they took this decision just because they are unable to bear the cost of its maintenance and that too they are going to sell it for Rs 3.1 Cr..

Is Indian Defense Ministry facing such financial crisis , they are unable to maintain an legendary retired Air craft Carrier ??

From what i have read in the news earlier, IIRC the issue was two pronged, the conversion of the ship into a Maritime Museum - CapEx issues; and the issue of finding a permanent berth for it to be used as a Museum, in both cases i think the Mumbai municipal corporation has not been able to invest/resolve the issues. The Navy on its part has been funding the upkeep so far.

 

[gf0012-aust]

Indian Navy

World Maritime News - Indian Coast Guard Welcomes New Patrol Boat

Indian Coast Guard Welcomes New Patrol Boat
The Protocol of delivery and acceptance was signed by Shri Vinayakumar P, Director, on behalf of CSL, and Commanding Officer of the vessel Cmdr. Umed Singh of Indian Coast Guard.
The vessel is named “CGS AGRIM” and will be operated by the Coast Guard Station at Mumbai.
Cochin Shipyard had signed the contract for the construction of the 20 Fast Patrol Vessels (FPV) for the Indian Coast Guard on October 20, 2010. The yard has already earlier delivered five vessels tothe Coast Guard.

Like its sister ships, “AGRIM” is a Fast Patrol Vessel capable of speeds of 33 knots, and will be very effective in supporting the Indian Coast Guard in its anti-smuggling, anti-piracy operations, fisheries protection and monitoring.

Since the speed of the vessel is crucial in coastal security operations, the superstructure of these ships is made of aluminum.

The ship is propelled by water jets powered by three Main Engines, each of capacity-2720 KW, and built to the dual classicfication requirements of ABS and IRS.

May 30, 2014

 

[dragonfire]

6 New Submarines to be Built in India

Rs 80,000 crore worth defence projects cleared, 6 submarines to be built in India

NEW DELHI: Defence projects worth a whopping Rs 80,000 crore were on Saturday cleared by the government which decided that six submarines will be made indigenously.

Rs 80,000 crore worth defence projects cleared, 6 submarines to be built in India - The Times of India

As per news reports the DAC (Defence Acquisition Council) Chaired by the Defence Minister has cleared a multitude of projects including the announcement of the plan to build 6 new submarines in India. Apart from the submarines two SDV have also been cleared for the Navy MARCOS Commandos.

Various news reports suggest the submarines have been budgeted at INR 50,000 Crore to INR 53,000 Crore which is roughly equivalent to about 8.15 Billion USD to 8.64 Billion USD (as per rate today 1 USD = 61.28 INR)

In addition to the submarines and the SDVs the IN also gets 12 additional Dornier aircraft to be built by HAL to augment the 40 dorniers already in use for Maritime surveillance.

India has never built a conventional submarine before. Would the knowledge of building the nuclear submarine INS Arihant have any use in the case of the conventional submarines with AIP Another question is does 8.15 Billion USD which translates to 1.35 Billion USD per submarine seem too much ?

 

[Waylander]

Germany buys it's U212A Block II for roughly 500 million EUR per boat IIRC. That's 630 million in USD.

Even including development coasts divided by six boats this seems overly expensive for a conventional AIP boat.

 

[dragonfire]

Germany buys it's U212A Block II for roughly 500 million EUR per boat IIRC. That's 630 million in USD.

Even including development coasts divided by six boats this seems overly expensive for a conventional AIP boat.

Perhaps the cost includes the development of infrastructure at shipyards to enable the construction these boats. The next step in the action plan is to review shipyards in the country in the next 6 to 8 weeks and prepare and submit a report basis which a RFP will be issued to a specific shipyard. However i still think the budgeting is high, though the RFP and the negotiation for the same will define the final price.

 

[StobieWan]

The Germans are in serial production of a known design - if you look at the project costs for say, the Spanish boat program, they've budgeted $2.8bn or so for four boats, so the Indians may have arrived at a cautious and achievable figure.