War Against ISIS

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StobieWan

Super Moderator
Staff member
umair said:
Iraq's problem wrt its army as explained by a friend in uniform here is that the Iraqi army despite all the equipment & training & numbers, essentially operates as a jobs program. Each Iraqi enlisted guy gets about double what a young officer in our army gets & equivalent to a GDP's pay with hazardous flight duty allowance in our airforce. Basically he says they don't have a higher purpose instilled into them as other armed forces normally have. This situation is a crucible for the Iraqi army either it will come out evolved as a cohesive national fighting force or bust. Also the lack of enough air assets ought to be a headache.
On a different note, I see many media outlets styling IS as Sunni extremists. As a Sunni Muslim myself I can tell you they aren't. IS belongs to the Wahabi/Salafi school of thought & frankly a detailed explanation would require a discussion of Islamic theology & eschatology which is not required here. Suffice to say that they aren't Sunnis.
This declaration of a caliphate maybe their biggest mistake (again requires a discourse on eschatology). No Sunni extremist or not would pledge allegiance to them what to say of the Shiites. Even their ideological brethren & benefactors in KSA are now scared of them. The irony is despite seeing the danger the Saudis would cooperate with Shiites only when hell freezes over. I see great chances for containment but outright elimination :confused:
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Can't speak for the mod team but I wouldn't mind a bare-bones background on the IS/Sunni/Wahabist end of things at all (I'd actually find it very instructive!)
 
Feanor

Feanor

Super Moderator
Staff member
Meanwhile Iranian Su-25Ks are arriving in Iraq. Probably with pilots. That might explain how they plan to operate the Su-25s on such short notice.

bmpd -
 
U

umair

Peace Enforcer
Iraqi army Abrams are monkey model Abrams. Basically the same as the Abrams model which was offered to Pakistan in 88 & rejected by us. No excuse for poor HR but don't confuse these M1s with your stock M1As.
 
U

umair

Peace Enforcer
Gary, I read the discussion over at WAB & one poster disagreed with me reg whether Wahabis are Sunni or not.
Also since a fellow poster here asked, below is a primer on Islam/Muslims, the two main sects & why Salafis/Wahabis are not considered Sunnis & how come they get to be labeled as such. You can cross ref this if you want.
1) First of all I'll start with what basically constitutes a Muslim. The two most basic & most important constituents of the Islamic faith are 1- Monotheism (same as other Abrahamic religions & 2- The belief that Muhammad (S.A.W) is the last messenger of God & the last Law(Sharia) Bearing Prophet (like Moses A.S).
Now anyone who believes is these 2 tenets atleast is a Muslim
Islam is divided into two main sects as you all probably know:
1-Sunnis
2-Shiites
The schism & why it happened is irrelevant here. Suffice to say that there are doctrinal differences but overwhelmingly the two sects have coexisted with eachother in peace for most of the last 1300 or so years.
Now coming to why Salafis/Wahabis aren't Sunni.
Sunni is basically short for Ahlus Sunnah Wal Jamat. A loose translation would be "Those of the party & gathering of the Sunnah".
Sunnis comprise of Muslims who follow the fiqh (Sharia interpretation) of any of the following 4 Imams
1) Imam Abu Hanifa (followers Hanfi, largest Sunni denomination.)
2) Imam Malik
3) Imam Shafi
4) Imam Ahmed ibne Hanbal

A Sunni will at anyone time follow the fiqh of only one Imam. Eg I'm a hanfi. In regards to matters of Islamic sharia interpretation I will refer to works by Imam Abu Hanifa & commentaries or works by other Hanfi scholars.
Same for any person following the other 3 Imams.
A Sunni by practice & doctrine will follow the interpretation of only one Imam at a time. If you like you can switch the fiqah you follow as there are only minute differences. Once you switch you must follow that fiqah whole heartedly.
Salafis/Wahabis (without going into the history) are what we call Ghaer Muqlids (Muqlid means to follow. Ghaer Muqlid means those who follow no one).
Ostensibly the founders of Salafism & Wahabism were followers of Imam Hanbal.
Unlike Sunnis, the above refuse to follow any Imam's interpretation of fiqah. They rather act like kids at a Pik n Mix candy counter, choosing what to follow from which fiqah or even negating all 4 at the same time.
They are also known as Takfiris (those who call others disbelievers) because a whole lot of them think that apart from them no one is Muslim. Now contrast this with the definition of a Muslim I gave earlier.
Salafis unlike Sunnis think of mausoleums of Prophets & saints as places of disbelief. Sunnis respect such places out of respect for the deceased & not only preserve but safeguard them.
In Syria, Saudia & other places where these guys are ascendant they have destroyed many tombs. Sunnis would never do that. This was just one example where us Sunnis.
I would like to go into more but that would become a scholarly discourse & is not appropriate for a milstrat forum.
I hope this alone helps in explaining why they aren't Sunnis.
P.S
That poster on WAB, buddy Deobandi & Barelvi are 2 schools of teaching of the Hanfi fiqah not as you put it comprising Sunnis alongside Wahabis.
P.p.s both originated in India, Deoband (Deobandi) & the city of Rai Baraily(Barailvi).
 
B

BDRebel

New Member
umair said:
Gary, I read the discussion over at WAB & one poster disagreed with me reg whether Wahabis are Sunni or not.
Also since a fellow poster here asked, below is a primer on Islam/Muslims, the two main sects & why Salafis/Wahabis are not considered Sunnis
Click to expand...
I agree with you on the basis that ISIS aren't Sunni Muslims, but keep in mind that ISIS doesn't form the bulk of Iraqi rebels. Media has us thinking that ISIS single-handedly overwhelmed Iraqi forces in Mosul and other parts of Iraq. Some analysts say Mosul was taken with approximately 700 fighters only. Now tell me, do you actually think Iraq's third largest city can be overwhelmed with 700 fighters only? The obvious fact is, tribes that have been protesting against Maliki's regime are within the rebel ranks. With this in mind, it is easy to see why the Iraqi populace is more accepting of the rebels, and doesn't expel them from cities/towns they hold. True that ISIS may be the most experienced, most effective of the rebels, but they are but a small part of them.

Not to make it sound like a conspiracy theory, but the media is trying to generalise the rebels as ISIS in a bid to make the Iraqi revolt/uprising (whatever you want to call it) invalid.

I must refer back to the Syrian revolution here. Similar situation happened in Syria. FSA rebels (mostly citizens and defectors from the Syrian regime) were being defamed by extremist groups in Syria. Many believe, and with good reason, that these extremist groups were created by the regime to garner support against the rebels and to visualise the image that the regime was fighting terrorists, not freedom fighters. In fact, it is well know that the regime released many of its criminal detainees to fight on its behalf. As the current situation lies in Syria, FSA has for awhile now been fighting ISIS and regime forces.
 
S

STURM

Well-Known Member
Vegan-Zombie said:
I find it funny that they simply painted black over the roundels, and brown over the fin flash.
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Hardly surprising, given the urgency in getting those planes to Iraq. What is ironic is that these very planes are probably the same ones Saddam ordered to be flown to Iran - of all places - to avoid being destroyed by Western bombs in 1991. Now these planes are back in Iraq to be used against ISIS; the same folks that are trying to overthrow Assad - whom the West wants gone - but who is best mates with Maliki and the mullahs in Tehran.
 
S

STURM

Well-Known Member
Assuming the report is accurate and the Scud originated from within Iraq, would the missile still be operable after all these years? Any idea as to what a Scud's shelf life is?

A very interesting conversation. A speaker points out that contray to popular belief, there are other anti-government groups in addition to ISIS.

[nomedia="http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=KJOBSvJKavA"]Iraq's ISIL crisis - YouTube[/nomedia]


[nomedia="http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=YZHI_CNewss"]Sunni rebels form uneasy alliance with ISIL - YouTube[/nomedia]
 
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B

BDRebel

New Member
B

BDRebel

New Member
Feanor said:
Umair thanks for the clarification, it's quite useful.

On a separate note, Russian sources claim that the rebels in Iraq have a Scud missile. Anyone know whether this is true, or even possible?

ИракÑкие боевики захватили ракету «Скад»
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I did hear and read about this earlier, with the exception that it was in Syria not Iraq. Raqqa to be exact.

[nomedia="http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=fjvxHCY26rk"]ISIS Parades Scud Missile, Tanks, in Al-Raqqah, Syria - YouTube[/nomedia]

http://english.alarabiya.net/en/New...es-ballistic-Scud-missile-in-Syrian-town.html
 
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