Australian Army Discussions and Updates

[Volkodav]

Interesting though the UK are still retaining tracks for their scout vehicles having discarded their Foxes years ago. I believe it is probably the success of the ASLAV that is keeping wheels in the mix rather than going for a single tracked FOV as we once had with the M-113.

Dreaming here but wouldn't it be nice to have both a fully tracked and a wheeled ACR supporting each Brigade with SPGs, MLRS, air defense and a properly equiped reserve.

 

[Waylander]

The M113 Upgrade has cost in excess of AUD$1 billion.

One would have gotten alot of European surplus equipment + spare parts and support for this.

 

[STURM]

One would have gotten alot of European surplus equipment + spare parts and support for this.

Off topic but do you know if Germany and Holland still have stocks of surplus Leopards 2s for export?

 

[Waylander]

I am not sure about the Dutch but our sticks are quite low and as we want to retain some reserves for our own there aren't many more reserve A4s for sale.

New builds are still a possibility too but they are just as expensive as any other western MBT.

 

[gf0012-aust]

One would have gotten alot of European surplus equipment + spare parts and support for this.

Thats repeatedly pointed out in a lot of circles. When I worked in Germany (the first time) it was circa 2000 and there were lots of dicussions about being able to get ex WARPAC stocks from Germany for mates rates (ie close to being gifted)

That included Leo 2's Marders, spare mogs (and parts) and quite a bit of scientific research gear from the German equiv of DSTO

The hardware was basically new and unused and been held in warehouses as surge equipment

 

[Volkodav]

Thats repeatedly pointed out in a lot of circles. When I worked in Germany (the first time) it was circa 2000 and there were lots of dicussions about being able to get ex WARPAC stocks from Germany for mates rates (ie close to being gifted)

That included Leo 2's Marders, spare mogs (and parts) and quite a bit of scientific research gear from the German equiv of DSTO

The hardware was basically new and unused and been held in warehouses as surge equipment

John Howard could have had his armoured brigade, he could have mechanised the entire ARA and the reserve for less than was spent on other systems and salved Aussie industry with sustainment work. Same with the RAN but wont go there.

 

[kato]

I am not sure about the Dutch but our sticks are quite low and as we want to retain some reserves for our own there aren't many more reserve A4s for sale.

German stocks should currently be ca 500 Leopard 2 and ca 150 Leopard 1.

Remaining Leopard 1 not in demolishment program but kept for replacement deliveries to allied nations using them. Last company-sized shipment went to Brazil.

German report to UNODA on stocks for 2013/12/31 should be delivered around now. Publication by UNODA is usually in July.

Germany reported 668 Leopard 2 and 147 Leopard 1 to UNODA as of 2012/12/31.
Netherlands reported 133 Leopard 2 and 12 Leopard 1 to UNODA as of 2012/12/31.

That included Leo 2's Marders, spare mogs (and parts) and quite a bit of scientific research gear from the German equiv of DSTO

We still have the Marders btw. They only started demolishing those last year, about 1200 or so should still be around.

 

[Waylander]

Buying Marders as of 2014, even with some of the proposed upgrades seen on defense fairs, is a bad idea unless one is broke and desperate.

And from my experience they haven't aged as favourably as the Leopard 1 and 2s.

 

[kato]

Well, as long as no one gets the idea of buying those limping M113s limited to 25 km/h from us...

 

[Waylander]

You could always use them as giant field cooking pots. Gulaschkanone FTW...

Even the US plans to finally retire the M113 in all its iterations which are still in service.

The design is just horrible, albeit cheap, for modern standards.

 

[gf0012-aust]

You could always use them as giant field cooking pots. Gulaschkanone FTW...

Even the US plans to finally retire the M113 in all its iterations which are still in service.

The design is just horrible, albeit cheap, for modern standards.

ah, the Gavin Gulaschkanone

 

[Waylander]

Arrrgh, he said it...:eek

 

[Raven22]

For those interested, the army has created a blog for military professionals to discuss various future trends and other things of note. Interestingly, this is designed for serving members to post yet is accessible by the public, which shows a commendable shift from previous Defence policy. There's not much posted yet, because it's just been created, but more should appear soon. You can also subscribe so you get e-mailed a weekly update.

See link: Land Power Forum - Australian Army

 

[Monitor66]

For those interested, the army has created a blog for military professionals to discuss various future trends and other things of note. Interestingly, this is designed for serving members to post yet is accessible by the public, which shows a commendable shift from previous Defence policy. There's not much posted yet, because it's just been created, but more should appear soon. You can also subscribe so you get e-mailed a weekly update.

See link: Land Power Forum - Australian Army

Yes, very commendable. Should prove popular and instructive.

 

[t68]

On another foruom there is talk that Croatia has bought 12 PzH-2000 self propelled howitzers for 3.5m million each, they are reserve stock and 10 years old and will be refurbished, seems like a good deal?

Should the ADF look to do something like this after all the M1 were refurbished equipment.


Link is in another language hope it's right.
Hrvatska kupuje 12 njema

 

[knightrider4]

On another foruom there is talk that Croatia has bought 12 PzH-2000 self propelled howitzers for 3.5m million each, they are reserve stock and 10 years old and will be refurbished, seems like a good deal?

Should the ADF look to do something like this after all the M1 were refurbished equipment.


Link is in another language hope it's right.
Hrvatska kupuje 12 njema

We should just buy the latest M109 PIM.

 

[Waylander]

The advantages gained by simply pluggig the Paladins into your existing fire support and battlefield management network defenitely outweight the disadvantages on the individual platform level.

BTW, are there any hard numbers on how much it costs to bring older M109s up to A6 or A6 PIM?

 

[PeterM]

If the government decides to get SPH capability in the new whitepaper, it would be more likely to go with the options that were heavily evaluated in Land17 part C before the SPH capability was cancelled in min 2012.

We did look at the Pz2000 and were offered ex-Dutch units cheaply.

From my understanding (and please correct me if I am wrong), the Korean built AS/9 from Raytheon Australia / Samsung Techwin was the preferred option at the time.

 

[old faithful]

When is the new white paper due?

 

[PeterM]

My understanding is the next white paper is expected early next year

New Defence White Paper in 2015