USAF News and Discussion

[RobWilliams]

I searched for an appropriate thread like this but couldn't find one. May as well create one, can't stand it on other forums where a thread is created every time a piece of news comes out.

Anyway, interesting article about the role of the USAF in a potential Syrian intervention. The jist of it being that considering how the current plans are going (i.e limited cruise missile strikes) that their inventory of fighters, bombers & the like most probably won't be needed. Meaning that the USAF will very much take up a more secondary role providing ISTAR and - presumably - AAR capability.

Although it goes on to mention there are alternatives, e.g it may be decided that the limited cruise missile strikes weren't enough, thus potentially bringing in the USAF's precision bomber fleet.

In Syria, Air Force Mission Likely Limited to ISR | Defense News | defensenews.com

Backed up by a deployment of 2 U-2 reconnaissance aircraft to Cyprus today.

The Aviationist » Two U-2s touch down in Cyprus: U.S. moving spyplanes closer to Syria

 

[Quiller]

I searched for an appropriate thread like this but couldn't find one. May as well create one, can't stand it on other forums where a thread is created every time a piece of news comes out.

Anyway, interesting article about the role of the USAF in a potential Syrian intervention. The jist of it being that considering how the current plans are going (i.e limited cruise missile strikes) that their inventory of fighters, bombers & the like most probably won't be needed. Meaning that the USAF will very much take up a more secondary role providing ISTAR and - presumably - AAR capability.

Although it goes on to mention there are alternatives, e.g it may be decided that the limited cruise missile strikes weren't enough, thus potentially bringing in the USAF's precision bomber fleet.

In Syria, Air Force Mission Likely Limited to ISR | Defense News | defensenews.com

Backed up by a deployment of 2 U-2 reconnaissance aircraft to Cyprus today.

The Aviationist » Two U-2s touch down in Cyprus: U.S. moving spyplanes closer to Syria

Was watching the B-1 Lancer bomber fleet for movements -- wondering about using USAF JASSM as well as Navy Tomahawks in a strike. I notice a large eastern chunk of Syria is relatively unprotected by anti air missiles. There are three military airbases in the east, but not much in the way of AAMs. Seems a flight of Lancers from Turkey could slice in a broad curve from the east and launch JASSMs from inland east to west. Just a thought.

 

[RobWilliams]

That's most likely about as involved the USAF will get* in terms of a direct intervention; launching stand off weapons from outside Syrian airspace. That is, if the Navy strike is deemed to not be adequate.

*If the general idea if cruise missile strikes remains and it doesn't escalate.

 

[Waylander]

The nice thing about including air lauched standoff pgms in the attack is that it preserves the munition stocks on the ships
Having some nicely filled ammunition bunkers for short response strikes might come in handy in the future.

 

[Filipinas]

I'm surprised there's only a few post on this topic about the world's largest and most powerful air force, perhaps a lot of them were posted individually and not under a general thread like this one .

 

[RobWilliams]

Nah, people just haven't really been posting about the USAF in general, everyone has their own preferred topics to discuss. personally in terms of US forces my main interest is the USN.

 

[colay]

A series of interviews with Gen. Mike Hostage, Air Combat Command chief on how the USAF is positioning itself to conduct a new way of air combat. The F-35, by virtue of sheer numbers and the combination of it's bleeding-edge attributes e.g. LO, multi-spectral sensors, expansive networking, etc. will carry the heaviest load, working in tandem,with F-22s and other networked,assets.

CC tries to pry the General for more info on the JSF's EW and cyber capabilities but the latter is a skilled fighter pilot and skillfully evades giving direct answers. However one gets the impression that the JSF and F-22 combo are going to usher in a new era of air combat where brains and guile will trump brawn. Some intriguing mention is made of the power of cyber used in conjunction with space-based capabilities but not in any detail.

highlighted is the very different approach to EW,with the AF preferring to use an all-5Gen and their onboard EW/cyber systems to initiate hostilities vs an IADS. The USN CONOPs, in contrast, relies on Growlers to provide electronic cover for it's strike packages.

Gen. Mike Hostage On The F-35; No Growlers Needed When War Starts « Breaking Defense - Defense industry news, analysis and commentary

‘A God’s Eye View Of The Battlefield:’ Gen. Hostage On The F-35 « Breaking Defense - Defense industry news, analysis and commentary

 

[Pendekar]

Speaking of Raptors

Raptors and Eagles Confirmed for Cope Taufan 2014

I think this is the first time the Raptors go up against the Bars equipped Flankers, is it?

 

[STURM]

It's the first time that F-22s are deploying to South East Asia for an exercise and the first time the type is conducting DACT against Flankers and Hawks. The USAAF is also reportedly deploying a Joint Deployable Electronic Warfare Range to Malaysia.

F-22s land in Malaysia for first Southeast Asian exercise - IHS Jane's 360

 

[colay]

No doubt China will be rushing some SIGINT assets to the region to sniff out any useful intelligence on the Raptor. It's to be expected that the F-22 will take care not to employ it's full bag of tricks during the exercise. But sending it's most advanced aircraft in,such a high-profile manner into an area Beijing claims as it's backyard sends,a subtle message.

 

[Pendekar]

It's the first time that F-22s are deploying to South East Asia for an exercise and the first time the type is conducting DACT against Flankers and Hawks. The USAAF is also reportedly deploying a Joint Deployable Electronic Warfare Range to Malaysia.

F-22s land in Malaysia for first Southeast Asian exercise - IHS Jane's 360

US bought 2 SU-27 in 1995 for an agressor role. So i assume F-22 already faced a flanker before. But Malaysian SU-30 will be different from the SU-27 bought by US. For one, Malaysian MKM is equipped with the N011M Bars radar instead of the cassegrain N001 Myech of the original SU-27. It'll be nice to know how the Bars fare against the Stealthy F-22. Also equally interesting is how well the SAP-518 jammer fare against the F-22 AESA. But i guess it'll all be top secret.

 

[STURM]

Pendekar,

Yes but we but have no idea whether the Su-27s ever flew against F-22s in an aggressor role. This is the first public confirmation of F-22s flying against an Su-27/30. The thing to bear in mind is that the F-22s have deployed without any ISR assets. In a real world engagement the F-22s will be cued to AEW platforms and other ISR assets: all part of a networked system. The SAP-518 jammer is intended to be used against the seekers of AAMs not onboard radars of opposing fighters.

Colay,

It would be safe to say that radar and radio frequencies of the the F-22s, F-15s and Su-20MKMs will be on training or non-combat mode. Even if China deployed some snooping assets there probably won't be much useful info they can pick up.

 

[colay]

Colay,

It would be safe to say that radar and radio frequencies of the the F-22s, F-15s and Su-20MKMs will be on training or non-combat mode. Even if China deployed some snooping assets there probably won't be much useful info they can pick up.

No doubt. Also expect the Raptor to sport radar enhancers or EFTs to mask it's clean-config RCS.

 

[Bonza]

US bought 2 SU-27 in 1995 for an agressor role. So i assume F-22 already faced a flanker before. But Malaysian SU-30 will be different from the SU-27 bought by US. For one, Malaysian MKM is equipped with the N011M Bars radar instead of the cassegrain N001 Myech of the original SU-27. It'll be nice to know how the Bars fare against the Stealthy F-22. Also equally interesting is how well the SAP-518 jammer fare against the F-22 AESA. But i guess it'll all be top secret.

The simulated combat won't tell you how the SU-30 measures up versus the F-22 as the point of the training is to simulate different kinds of threat and then train effectively against it. So unless you know what the training was intended to simulate, you won't be able to pull any "Flanker vs Raptor" data from the results.

 

[colay]

The simulated combat won't tell you how the SU-30 measures up versus the F-22 as the point of the training is to simulate different kinds of threat and then train effectively against it. So unless you know what the training was intended to simulate, you won't be able to pull any "Flanker vs Raptor" data from the results.

Yeah, it maybe that the Raptors team up with the Flankers vs.,Eagles constituting the Red Force threat.

 

[STURM]

Apologies to the moderators. I have posted two paragraphs below which was taken verbatim - some off-topic - from a discussion I recently had with someone else. I posted it here as its relevent to the topic and would be interest to those who have commented on the F-22s in Malaysia exercise. Thank you.

As for the USAF’s F/A-22 Raptors making their maiden Southeast Asian deployment in Malaysia, it was an extremely well-thought move by both Malaysia & the US. The latter could not count on either Thailand or Singapore to host the Raptors as both are heavily dependent on China’s goodwill for economic survival & don’t want their investments inside China to be destroyed by rampaging Chinese mobs. The Philippines, Brunei Darussalam & Cambodia have no such investments, while Indonesia is a neutral party to the territorial disputes in the South China Sea. That leaves Malaysia with minimal investments in China as being the only party willing to host a high-profile temporary USAF detachment. Malaysia over the past few months had been feeling the heat from the US about Iran sanctions-bursting (see: Financial Times links Malaysia to sanctions-breaking sale of Iran oil | Malaysia | The Malay Mail Online) & Putra Jaya therefore wanted to get back into the good books of Uncle Sam through some tangible gesture. Thus, when the US proposed the Raptors’ deployment, Putra Jaya saw this as tantamounting to killing two birds with one stone: i.e. getting close to the US; & ‘engaging’ China constructively by sending a strong signal to Beijing about Malaysia’s options on maintaining a ‘coalition of the willing’. Though Malaysia does not see China as an immediate military threat, it has sufficient reason to be worried.

It will be interesting to see the conduct of the exercises from Butterworth air base, since that air base also hosts visiting RAAF detachments. Also note that the USAF is not deploying any AWACS platforms—meaning the Raptors’ deployment is merely symbolic (unless the RAAF’s B.737NG AEW & CS platforms participate). Had there been an intent to practice serious dissimilar air combat manoeuvres, then AWACS would have arrived from Kadena or continental US, & the Raptors would have been operating out of Kuantan air base facing the South China Sea. From a Malaysian perspective, the TUDM/RMAF will get its first crack at comparing the supermanoeuvrability characteristics of the Su-30MKM & the Raptor. Also, during the ‘merge’ during both daytime & by night, it will be interesting to see whether the Su-30MKM’s & MiG-29N’s on-board IRSTs serve as force-multipliers against the F-15Cs & Raptors in terms of ‘look-first, shoot-first’ capability.

Some pics below of RMAF Su-30MKMs and Super Hornets from the USS George Washington in 2012. The USAAF has been conducting Cope Taufan with the RMAF for almost 20 years; the first Cope Taufan exercise involving Su-30MKMs was in 2012. As far as I can tell it was also the first time that the Su-30MKMs had participated in a bilateral exercise.

http://www.pacaf.af.mil/news/story.asp?id=123297640

 

[colay]

The US regularly holds joint military training with different militaries in the region and I think it's more of a coincidence that it was the RMAF's turn to play host. I really don't think it's likely Chinese mobs would go,after Singaporean or Thai interests should they engage in joint exercises with the US as they have often,done in the past. Per the linked,article, the trade and investment relationship between Malaysia and China is actually quite robust.

Mobs in China only happen,with the government's blessing and I don't see Beijing jeopardizing relations with KL over an exercise, specially when the former seems to want to mend fences over it's hostile behavior in relation to the MH370 incident. For,KL,though, there may be some satisfaction in thumbing it's nose at China. For the US, it's an opportunity to demonstrate it's resolve to remain a player in the region by parading it's most advanced fighter. I think we will see more "showing the flag" joint exercises by the US going forward. There will,also be a very high-profile deployment of an LCS force operating out of,Singapore.


Malaysia Works At Cultivating Strong Economic Ties With China

 

[STURM]

Both countries have been conducting Cope Taufan on an annual basis for 20 years now. To me at least, I doubt it's a mere coincidence that a decision was made for F-22s to participate in this year's exercise.

 

[colay]

Both countries have been conducting Cope Taufan on an annual basis for 20 years now. To me at least, I doubt it's a mere coincidence that a decision was made for F-22s to participate in this year's exercise.

Yes, I agree. IMO the US likely pushed for the inclusion of F-22s to send it's own message to countries in the region and I foresee more of the same going forward. Just a matter of time before the F-35 makes it's debut as well.

 

[swerve]

...
Mobs in China only happen,with the government's blessing

Nope. There are real protests sometimes, & quite often they catch the government on the hop. Not publicised anywhere near as much as the semi-official anti-foreigner mobs, often dispersed violently (not always - sometimes the state appeases them, usually when the problem is blatantly corrupt local officials or illegal practices by businesses), but they're a lot more common than most outsiders think.

China’s Anti-Pollution Protests Grow Increasingly Violent - China Real Time Report - WSJ.