US Navy News and updates

[StobieWan]

I suppose thinking about it, they probably need to get those Virginias built and in the water to cover the last LA's being pulled and before the SSBN program ramps up. Says something about the US industrial base when they can just shrug their shoulders a little and shake out ten world class boats, all of which I would expect to be built to schedule and budget.

Funny the things you can achieve when you order in blocks and keep the your yards running...

 

[kev 99]

I suppose thinking about it, they probably need to get those Virginias built and in the water to cover the last LA's being pulled and before the SSBN program ramps up. Says something about the US industrial base when they can just shrug their shoulders a little and shake out ten world class boats, all of which I would expect to be built to schedule and budget.

Funny the things you can achieve when you order in blocks and keep the your yards running...

Correct me if I'm wrong, but I'm sure I read somewhere that the last Virginnia was about 10 months early and way under budget.

 

[HurricaneDitka]

Correct me if I'm wrong, but I'm sure I read somewhere that the last Virginnia was about 10 months early and way under budget.

According to Wikipedia, the New Hampshire (SSN-778) "was delivered eight months ahead of schedule and $54 million under budget."

Edit to add: Under budget is nice to see, and too rare with DoD procurements these days, but keep in mind that that's $54M on a $2B vessel. That's like 2.7% under budget.

 

[Volkodav]

I have said it before, if Australia were to buy MOTS Virginias I would be happy as. The money saved from the local sub build could then be rolled into sustainable domestic surface vessel construction and a civilian nuclear energy industry.

 

[FormerDirtDart]

Correct me if I'm wrong, but I'm sure I read somewhere that the last Virginnia was about 10 months early and way under budget.

Last of the Block II boats, USS Minnesota (SSN-783), was delivered 11 months ahead of schedule. Photo Release -- Submarine Minnesota Delivered on Budget and Ahead of Schedule NYSE:HII

Unfortunately, the first Block III boats just hit a speed bump. PCU North Dakota (SSN-784) will not be commissioned as planned, due to a problem with the new "Virginia Payload Tubes" (VPT). Delivery of submarine North Dakota delayed to Navy | Navy Times | navytimes.com

 

[HurricaneDitka]

Does anyone have any thoughts on why Taiwan isn't pursuing Virginia-class subs? I heard they want some diesel-electrics, but why? Quieter? Cheaper? They certainly seem to be having a hard time getting anyone to sell them.

 

[StobieWan]

Given the amount of arms deals the Chinese have blocked to Taiwan earlier, there is no way in this life that a Virginia buy would get past the politics.

 

[HurricaneDitka]

Given the amount of arms deals the Chinese have blocked to Taiwan earlier, there is no way in this life that a Virginia buy would get past the politics.

Why is that? Are they just too advanced / sophisticated? It was reported a couple of weeks ago that the US was willing to help Taiwan build new diesel-electric submarines. Why not just sell them some Virginias instead?

 

[cdxbow]

Why is that? Are they just too advanced / sophisticated? It was reported a couple of weeks ago that the US was willing to help Taiwan build new diesel-electric submarines. Why not just sell them some Virginias instead?

Wouldn't take long for every detail of the Virginias to make it back to the PRC. Given it looks like the USN is really depending on the Virginias to be effective for quite a while, I don't think they want to hand the design over to the opposition. .

In addition there are the political sensitivities of advanced weapon sales to Taiwan.

 

[StobieWan]

Why is that? Are they just too advanced / sophisticated? It was reported a couple of weeks ago that the US was willing to help Taiwan build new diesel-electric submarines. Why not just sell them some Virginias instead?

Balance of power in the region - the US has always been supportive of Taiwan but conscious of China's protests about arms sales to Taiwan - fast jets, surface ships, they've always wanted to buy better than they have.

Additionally, there's the NPT treaty to be considered as well I believe as there are some elements of a very dense reactor core used in SSN's that impinge on that, although I may be talking through my hat here

 

[AegisFC]

Does anyone have any thoughts on why Taiwan isn't pursuing Virginia-class subs? I heard they want some diesel-electrics, but why? Quieter? Cheaper? They certainly seem to be having a hard time getting anyone to sell them.

Political pressure from China and that the Taiwanese military isn't known for their ability to keep secret information from the mainland.

Besides a Virginia would be overkill for them, for once a Euro-style SSK would be ideal.

 

[StobieWan]

And peripherally helps the USN as they get access to another set of clockwork mice to train against?

 

[kev 99]

According to Wikipedia, the New Hampshire (SSN-778) "was delivered eight months ahead of schedule and $54 million under budget."

Edit to add: Under budget is nice to see, and too rare with DoD procurements these days, but keep in mind that that's $54M on a $2B vessel. That's like 2.7% under budget.

Still a pretty decent amount of wedge not going out of the budget though.

 

[John Fedup]

Wouldn't take long for every detail of the Virginias to make it back to the PRC. Given it looks like the USN is really depending on the Virginias to be effective for quite a while, I don't think they want to hand the design over to the opposition. .

In addition there are the political sensitivities of advanced weapon sales to Taiwan.

I agree. Don't know how long it would take for the PRC to get details but it would likely be speeded up with a Taiwan purchase. If the US was unwilling to sell F-22 Raptors to key Western and Asian allies, why would the Virginias be offered to Taiwan when modern diesel electric subs would offer excellent defensive capabilities and minimal risk to defence secrets, not to mention lower cost? The other advantage to the US is to have a modern diesel-electric sub to compliment the Virginia fleet.

 

[John Fedup]

Still a pretty decent amount of wedge not going out of the budget though.

True, especially considering this platform is a working and valuable success as compared to .....no need to specify, everyone can guess?

 

[HurricaneDitka]

... The other advantage to the US is to have a modern diesel-electric sub to compliment the Virginia fleet.

Do you think we'd ever want to complement our fleet of SSN's with diesel-electrics?

 

[ASSAIL]

Do you think we'd ever want to complement our fleet of SSN's with diesel-electrics?

Large SSN's do not like shallow littoral seas which cover just about most of the SLOC's in the Westpac SE Asian area. I would think that an ally with purpose built SSG's would prove to be a most useful addition to the US firepower
Horses for courses and the USN doesn't have a horse in this particular race.

 

[John Fedup]

Probably not the correct place to comment on this but Sikorsky has been selected to supply new helicopters for the Presidential fleet for which the USN/USMC looks after. The new helicopter will be based on their S-92. Good luck as the S-92 was the basis for Sikorsky's H-92 military version which Canada selected for its Maritime helicopter replacement (Cyclone CH-148). At least the EH-101/AH-101 existed as a potential helicopter replacement for the Presidential fleet...Sikorsky still hasn't delivered Cyclones on want they promised placed on their paper concept. Canadians shouldn't complain as we got the cancelled VH-71s for 164m to use as replacement parts for our Cormorant CH-147s (EH-101 SAR helicopters). Our former dipstick PM Chretien was too cheap to order spares with the SAR helicopter purchase back in 1997.

 

[the concerned]

Would the recent relaxation of defence exports push japan as the likely place to provide ssk's to Taiwan, maybe give japan a bargaining tool against its dispute with china.

 

[ngatimozart]

Would the recent relaxation of defence exports push japan as the likely place to provide ssk's to Taiwan, maybe give japan a bargaining tool against its dispute with china.

Part of the Japanese legislation states that they can only export to politically acceptable countries. So first you would have to determine whether, or not, Japan recognises Taiwan as a legitimate nation separate from the PRC. Then, if that is the case, it has to determined if it would be politically acceptable, in Japanese terms, for Japan to sell SSKs to Taiwan and if it did, would that be in Japans best interest.