Royal Australian Navy Discussions and Updates

[John Fedup]

Report of Dutch NH90 corrosion during shipboard deployment.

Dutch maritime NH90s suffer corrosion - 3/19/2014 - Flight Global

As Canada has not received any naval helicopters for deployment yet we don't know how the CH-148 Cyclone will fare with regards to corrosion, hopefully better than Sikorsky's ability to deliver them. We have EH101 SAR helicopters but they are land based for the most part with occasional ocean patrol from land bases. Anyone know how the Merlin version does with respect to corrosion when based on ships?

 

[t68]

Agree the 90m vessel is quite capable as an OPV and has a mission deck below the flight deck.

Well it appears that the USCG is getting ready to build a slightly enlarged version of the OPV, if they are going to build offshore might be better to go FMS on the OPV 2600 or US designation Offshore Patrol Cutter.

USCG: Offshore Patrol Cutter

http://www.damen.com/en/markets/~/m.../Datasheets/OT/OPV/2600/555800OPV 2600DS.ashx

 

[Volkodav]

As Canada has not received any naval helicopters for deployment yet we don't know how the CH-148 Cyclone will fare with regards to corrosion, hopefully better than Sikorsky's ability to deliver them. We have EH101 SAR helicopters but they are land based for the most part with occasional ocean patrol from land bases. Anyone know how the Merlin version does with respect to corrosion when based on ships?

Well the RN has been operating them from their carriers and frigates for over a decade now and I have not heard any reports on issues with excessive corrosion, wear and tear etc. Then again the type was specifically designed as a Sea King replacement so you would hope it was properly marinised.

Make you wonder what is going to happen with Australia's MRH90s and possibly Tigers as well. If it is a maintenance issue that can be remedied without too onerous a change in routine all well and good but if we are talking design issues this is not good at all as the need to operate in a marine environment was one of the reasons the MRH90 was selected over the UH-60M. How Ironic if it turns out we need to buy a specifically navalised helicopter to cover the missions that the MRH-90 was specifically selected to conduct. Maybe the MH-60S I suggested in the Australian Army thread for special forces support may get a look in for all the wrong reasons, i.e. we have been ripped off again.

 

[PatH]

Lhd

This has probably came up before, but i was wondering what was the planned outfit for the LHD in terms of helicopters? When i read the navy website it says the new MH-60R's were to be operated from Frigates and AWD, so what Heli's ,if any, and how many of each will be dedicated to the LHD's? I

 

[oldsig127]

This has probably came up before, but i was wondering what was the planned outfit for the LHD in terms of helicopters? When i read the navy website it says the new MH-60R's were to be operated from Frigates and AWD, so what Heli's ,if any, and how many of each will be dedicated to the LHD's? I

I would imagine that dedicated air will be restricted to a couple of Navy MRH-90s at most. All the rest, MRH-90s, Tigers, Chinooks (and Blackhawks until retired) will be embarked by AAC as required for the task at hand.

It's moderately obvious. I think we bought 46 MRH-90, only six of them for Navy. All the Tigers, all the Chooks and Blackhawks are Army too. And they won't be leaving their aircraft aboard unless they're using them.

Shane

 

[Volkodav]

I would imagine that dedicated air will be restricted to a couple of Navy MRH-90s at most. All the rest, MRH-90s, Tigers, Chinooks (and Blackhawks until retired) will be embarked by AAC as required for the task at hand.

It's moderately obvious. I think we bought 46 MRH-90, only six of them for Navy. All the Tigers, all the Chooks and Blackhawks are Army too. And they won't be leaving their aircraft aboard unless they're using them.

Shane

And considering the RANs MRH90s will also have to be shared with Choules and the fleet tankers that leaves even less for the LHDs unless there is a regular army detachment.

Very different from the 80s and 90s when we had utility roled Wessex and ASW (later MCM and utility) Sea Kings and very few platforms that could actually take them to sea. Maybe justification for some joint force Sierras to supplement the Romeos MRH90s and Tigers as well as fill gaps in CSAR, SOF support and MCM as well as supplement other missions including surface attack (or am I beginning to sound like a broken record).

 

[icelord]

There will be 2 Army MRH90 wings posted to the LHD, either onboard or assigned from Townsville on standby for excercises, trials, operations. Much like the armys Amphib battalion rotations. There is also AFAIK the Navy MRH90 which will use the method of being based in Nowra, and fly out and meet the ship when she sails much like most frigates have. Others will be drawn in depending on the mission profile.
I spoke with a pilot from one of the Army wings last year who was beyond excited to be part of it, hes just concerned he will have to get used to the navys wardroom rules which he feels are weird.

 

[gf0012-aust]

Agree the type of vessel is badly needed, but the defence minister came out not long ago and said no more money in the kitty for new ships mixed signals going on

people have known about this for a while - but they weren't discussing it in open forums for obvious reasons

public announcements don't mean much unless you nail down context. DefMin was accurate in context

 

[StingrayOZ]

And considering the RANs MRH90s will also have to be shared with Choules and the fleet tankers that leaves even less for the LHDs unless there is a regular army detachment.

I would imagine each of the LHD's would keep 3 navy MRH90 on board nearly all the time. Where else would they keep them.

Choles has a tent to hanger a helo, and I don't think the tankers have anything. The LHD's have a full hanger to store and maintain. If Choles needs a helo then they can take a MH-60 or a MRH90 as needed (I don't imagine it will be that often). At least on the LHD the helos are well protected and easy to work on, and plenty of deck to practice landings.

I would also imagine that there are regular scheduled rotations of Army helos (tiger and MRh-90) onboard as well. Part of the whole one force thing.

Without army personnel and equipment the LHD's will be pretty empty. Ghost ship empty. They are designed to support land operations, so it makes complete sense for the army to be regular features on them. While we don't have a marine corps, I would imagine the army now gets plenty of chances to spend some time on the water.

 

[hairyman]

Re the Damen 2400 OPV, is the RAN actually getting one, or is it just under consideration?
If we are to get one for training purposes, I would like to see us get half a dozen others to use as genuine offshore patrol vessels.

 

[gf0012-aust]

Re the Damen 2400 OPV, is the RAN actually getting one, or is it just under consideration?

construction

 

[ASSAIL]

construction

Are you able to say "how much"? If in fact you have that info from the contract or, is that commercial in confidence with DMS?
I'm assuming all will be revealed on their ASX reporting in due course.

 

[ADMk2]

I would imagine that dedicated air will be restricted to a couple of Navy MRH-90s at most. All the rest, MRH-90s, Tigers, Chinooks (and Blackhawks until retired) will be embarked by AAC as required for the task at hand.

It's moderately obvious. I think we bought 46 MRH-90, only six of them for Navy. All the Tigers, all the Chooks and Blackhawks are Army too. And they won't be leaving their aircraft aboard unless they're using them.

Shane

47. We got one for free as compensation for delays...

 

[alexsa]

Are you able to say "how much"? If in fact you have that info from the contract or, is that commercial in confidence with DMS?
I'm assuming all will be revealed on their ASX reporting in due course.

details not really out there yet so it is a case of sit and wait for a formal announcement.

 

[ASSAIL]

details not really out there yet so it is a case of sit and wait for a formal announcement.

Thanks alexsa, had a look at DMS corporate structure and as its 100% owned by Serco Australia p/l and that is owned by Serco I'm not sure if the financial detail will ever be available publicly.

 

[Volkodav]

Informally it is costing about the same as a Cape.

 

[oldsig127]

47. We got one for free as compensation for delays...

So I was right then...bought 46.

I still can't see a full airwing being assigned to either ship unless they're actually exercising with Army at the time. While amphibious operations will be pretty new to them, they still have to practice all that old fashioned running up and down hills or flying over them that they've been doing since before even *I* was doing it. And most of that won't need a ship.

Shane

 

[cdxbow]

RAN - Twenty, twenty two

I have done a graphic of RAN warships as they could be in 2022. It doesn't include patrol boats, supply vessels etc. They are laid out to scale. It prints OK at A4 and A3, not sure if the quality is there for larger.

First are LHD & Hobart's should all be operational by then, next are the Anzacs, which should be in vigorous middle age; having all been upgraded by then. Next are the Collins, also expected to serve through the decade.

Next I have 'made up' a couple of ships. The first nuship is the OCV, it's based on the Austal MRV. It's 100m long trimaran with large flight deck, hangar and cargo deck. In additon to OPV role, these would fill a variety of small warship roles including MCM & ASW by using modules. Oz ship building has been busy building these at almost 2 per year to give a decent sized fleet of a dozen by 2022. I thought something based on Austal was most likely choice, however in view of recent events, perhaps I should of picked a Damen OPV instead.

The next nuship is the future frigate which probably won't be operational until 2029+, however by 2022 they should have made the decision. I selected the RN type 26, with 'Australianised' combat systems. There are a few good frigates to choose from, the Danish Iver Huitfeldt-class frigate, the sleek FREMM variants or even a Meko 600. These ships are very similar.

Last are the Adelaide's, in remembrance, as they should just about be pensioned off by then.

The first thing it highlighted to me was just how big the LHD are. Second thing was how important the OCV are going to be. Without them the hull numbers look a bit threadbare, and certainly lopsided with a shortage of smaller hulls to perform the various small warship roles.

 

[drjn]

I have done a graphic of RAN warships as they could be in 2022. It doesn't include patrol boats, supply vessels etc. They are laid out to scale. It prints OK at A4 and A3, not sure if the quality is there for larger.

First are LHD & Hobart's should all be operational by then, next are the Anzacs, which should be in vigorous middle age; having all been upgraded by then. Next are the Collins, also expected to serve through the decade.

Next I have 'made up' a couple of ships. The first nuship is the OCV, it's based on the Austal MRV. It's 100m long trimaran with large flight deck, hangar and cargo deck. In additon to OPV role, these would fill a variety of small warship roles including MCM & ASW by using modules. Oz ship building has been busy building these at almost 2 per year to give a decent sized fleet of a dozen by 2022. I thought something based on Austal was most likely choice, however in view of recent events, perhaps I should of picked a Damen OPV instead.

The next nuship is the future frigate which probably won't be operational until 2029+, however by 2022 they should have made the decision. I selected the RN type 26, with 'Australianised' combat systems. There are a few good frigates to choose from, the Danish Iver Huitfeldt-class frigate, the sleek FREMM variants or even a Meko 600. These ships are very similar.

Last are the Adelaide's, in remembrance, as they should just about be pensioned off by then.

The first thing it highlighted to me was just how big the LHD are. Second thing was how important the OCV are going to be. Without them the hull numbers look a bit threadbare, and certainly lopsided with a shortage of smaller hulls to perform the various small warship roles.

I like the blue anti-fouling! The Collins looks a little odd with the fin so far forward.

 

[cdxbow]

I like the blue anti-fouling! The Collins looks a little odd with the fin so far forward.

Yes it was, now fixed and uploaded.