I was just think that but for the acquisition costs two or three Zumwalts would be ideal for NZ. Small crews, specifically designed for low through life costs and ease of maintenance, very capable in independent ops, good aviation facilities and an over match for anything they are likely to encounter operationally.
Royal New Zealand Navy Discussions and Updates
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Ummm at US$3.5 billion per unit there'd be collective apoplexy in the Treasury and that'd fill the Cardiac Intensive Care Unit at Wellington Hospital & blow out the health budget. One Zumwalt is one years NZDF budget. Like you say it's the acquisition cost. Wonder if Uncle Sam would take $1-00 down & $1-00 a week.
Australia and New Zealand just need to convince the US to build 50+ of them as Ticonderoga and belated Spruance replacements then we could buy some on the cheap, surplus in 20 years.
40 deg south
Well-Known Member
First, congrats on a great internet find.
The design brief is very interesting, but worth remembering it is only a student project. That comes through in a few places - the reference to 'Maximum Cursing Speed' was one I liked! The somewhat ropey referencing Ngati picked up may just be a reflection of this.
I'm still struck by the number of different functions they are trying to fit into one hull. I realise none of it is particularly leading edge, but its simply like trying to squeeze furniture from two or three houses into a single dwelling, and still have a clear pathway from the kitchen to the TV! It can be done, but it needs to be thought out very carefully in advance.
As you note, draft is going to be a limiting factor on design, if the vessels they have chosen for comparison purposes are any indication. Plus the ice strengthening is going to hit the budget hard, which is likely to restrict hull size.
Given both space and cost constraints, I think its highly improbably they will attempt to add for more armaments, or try to squeeze in space for a second helicopter.
FFH Te Mana is at present up in the Gulf of Aden chasing pirates with the Combined Maritime Forces (CMF). For three weeks from tomorrow Te Mana will be part of NATOs Operation Ocean Shield. The ministerial release states that this detachment will test NZDFs interoperability with NATO. At the end of the detachment Te Mana will return to its duties with the CMF until March prior to returning to NZ. This is good experience for the RNZN working in a task force of NATO navies.
40 deg south
Well-Known Member
Via a French-language aggregator of naval info
Newsletter navale | Scoop.it
there was a Spanish reference to Navantia bidding on a logistics ship for NZ.
Navantia optará a construir un buque logístico para Nueva Zelanda - Noticias Infodefensa España
There were already strong indications that Navantia would bid, and this confirms it. While the machine translation is bad, I interpret it as meaning that their bid is based around a class of three Cantabria-based vessels, with one built in Spain for NZ and two built in Australia.
That would certainly be an attractive option for Spain, with current unemployment at 25% plus. And the current NZ government would probably like the commonality with Australia. But will we be able to afford it?
Incidentally, in December 2013 Navantia won a Turkish contract for an LHD based on the Juan Carlos/Canberra class, to be built entirely in Turkey. However, production levels in the domestic yards are so low that Janes recently reported that the Spanish government was ordering a ship just to keep things ticking over until more international orders could be secured.
Spain to order new ship to maintain Navantia's workflow - IHS Jane's 360
Newsletter navale | Scoop.it
there was a Spanish reference to Navantia bidding on a logistics ship for NZ.
Navantia optará a construir un buque logístico para Nueva Zelanda - Noticias Infodefensa España
There were already strong indications that Navantia would bid, and this confirms it. While the machine translation is bad, I interpret it as meaning that their bid is based around a class of three Cantabria-based vessels, with one built in Spain for NZ and two built in Australia.
That would certainly be an attractive option for Spain, with current unemployment at 25% plus. And the current NZ government would probably like the commonality with Australia. But will we be able to afford it?
Incidentally, in December 2013 Navantia won a Turkish contract for an LHD based on the Juan Carlos/Canberra class, to be built entirely in Turkey. However, production levels in the domestic yards are so low that Janes recently reported that the Spanish government was ordering a ship just to keep things ticking over until more international orders could be secured.
Spain to order new ship to maintain Navantia's workflow - IHS Jane's 360
40 deg south
Well-Known Member
Since I'm logged in, here is another class of light naval vessel likely to be seen around the Pacific.
PIRIOU and DCNS win the B2M contract for the French Navy
Defense Update
IRIOU and DCNS to Deliver Three EEZ Support Vessels for the French Navy - Defense Update:
Looks as if they have gone for a slow but very seaworthy design that resembles the offshore support ships used in the oil industry. An interesting contrast to NZ's OPV choice. "Overseas" in the French context means the Overseas Territories, so we can expect one of them in either Noumea or Papeete. Or both.
PIRIOU and DCNS win the B2M contract for the French Navy
Another link here:
Defense Update
IRIOU and DCNS to Deliver Three EEZ Support Vessels for the French Navy - Defense Update:Looks as if they have gone for a slow but very seaworthy design that resembles the offshore support ships used in the oil industry. An interesting contrast to NZ's OPV choice. "Overseas" in the French context means the Overseas Territories, so we can expect one of them in either Noumea or Papeete. Or both.
Interesting, I would think not suited to NZ requirements although there is a perceived requirement here for at least one ocean going tug but not within NZDF. I think the Gowind OPV is a more accurate compare and contrast to the RNZN OPVs. Defense Update:Gowind Offshore Patrol Vessel (OPV) - Defense Update:Since I'm logged in, here is another class of light naval vessel likely to be seen around the Pacific.
PIRIOU and DCNS win the B2M contract for the French Navy
Another link here:
Defense Update
Looks as if they have gone for a slow but very seaworthy design that resembles the offshore support ships used in the oil industry. An interesting contrast to NZ's OPV choice. "Overseas" in the French context means the Overseas Territories, so we can expect one of them in either Noumea or Papeete. Or both.
Good find on the Navantia interest. Yes, I would think the RNZN would've given the Cantabria a going over when it was across the ditch. I think the front runners would have to be the BMT Aegir and the Navantia Cantabria and the Aegir may have it on capability and price.
DNB visitors!?!
Saw a visiting warship at DNB over the weekend, had an unfamiliar profile - anyone know what she was? Glimpsed it leaving Monday morning as I was driving over the bridge, but never got a good look. Also looked like RAN Huron in the stream but I could be mistaken on that score.
Saw a visiting warship at DNB over the weekend, had an unfamiliar profile - anyone know what she was? Glimpsed it leaving Monday morning as I was driving over the bridge, but never got a good look. Also looked like RAN Huron in the stream but I could be mistaken on that score.
The RNZN is holding its largest exercise in decades. It's a MCM and diving exercise involving ships from NZ, Australia and South Korea, plus personnel from14 countries. beehive.govt.nz - NZ Navy hosts largest exercise in decades
Ah thanks, had heard something about a MCM exercise but didn't realise it was as big as this. Hopefully we'll see story & pic's etc in next Navy Today mag.
http://www.navyrecognition.com/index.php?option=com_content&task=view&id=1475
Interesting. In terms of size & overall hull form, size etc I wonder if this could have some relevance to the proposed LWSV (Manawanui & Resolution replacement)!?! I'm not suggesting this vessel per-se, but something not too dissimilar.
Interesting. In terms of size & overall hull form, size etc I wonder if this could have some relevance to the proposed LWSV (Manawanui & Resolution replacement)!?! I'm not suggesting this vessel per-se, but something not too dissimilar.
My personal view is thay a modified OPV is the way to go. No hangar, but flight deck retained. I just can't ignore the savings in terms of logistics and training time. The other designs are thought provoking in terms of what we need.
On the face of it, this vessel wouldn't meet the RFI specs. It has no flight deck and the extra accommodation isn't big enough. Also not ice strengthened, but I think that requirement could be eventually set aside due to cost. Then again it might not be.
40 deg south
Well-Known Member
Well, the Manwanui started life as a North Sea rig support vessel, seen here in her pre-NZ days.
Star Perseus
At 43 m and 911 tonnes, she is substantially smaller than the proposed French B2M vessels (65m, 1500 tonnes, according to Janes). France orders three new multimission vessels - IHS Jane's 360
But they in turn are much smaller than the vessel envisaged by RNZN, which
had maximum dimensions of 150m length and 3600 tonnes dispacement (h/t Ngati).
That doesn't rule out a bid based on an oil support vessel - take a look at this monster being built by Kawasaki to a Rolls Royce design.
Rolls-Royce develops high-end offshore vessel for Island Offshore - Rolls-Royce
and
https://www.khi.co.jp/english/news/detail/20140128_1e.html
It is worth clicking through to the larger photo on the first link. It's too big and doubtless too expensive, but would certainly let NZ survey the seas in gentlemanly style. And it has a helipad and is ice-strenthened ("Steer closer to that 'berg Jeeves, I'll chip off some cubes for my gin"!)
Joking aside, the advantage of the offshore support types is that some of them are designed from scratch to support diving and/or sub-sea surveying. This could be a more cost-effective route to take than retro-fitting those functions into a conventional OPV-type vessel. No doubt time will tell.
Yes definitely want to see them get something bigger than the French one referred to above. Certainly the specs outlined in the RFI are larger than this but I can't help thinking they'll be forced to pare-back their expectations due to $$$ and will have to settle for something about the size of the French one. Whatever they get it's better to go off the shelf as much as possible rather than doing a retrofit & creating another orphan.
Gees that Kawasaki thing is hideous, would it look any better in grey?...
3A naval version wouldn't need the drill rig, which is what I assume is under that massive mast, so would look much better. Looks nicer than ocean shield or ocean protector, mast or not and at least its not painted red or orange!Yes definitely want to see them get something bigger than the French one referred to above. Certainly the specs outlined in the RFI are larger than this but I can't help thinking they'll be forced to pare-back their expectations due to $$$ and will have to settle for something about the size of the French one. Whatever they get it's better to go off the shelf as much as possible rather than doing a retrofit & creating another orphan.
Gees that Kawasaki thing is hideous, would it look any better in grey?...
That's not just and OSV she's also a drillship, the derrick is enclosed behind the funnels. It's enclosed and heated so the crew can operate the derrick down to -35.
40 deg south
Well-Known Member
Thinking back to the RFI specs Ngati posted in October (p214), I'm not sure there is anything off the shelf that can carry out
- diving support
- mine countermeasures
- military hydrography
plus some generic support requirements
Most navies seem to have different vessels for these task, as far as i can tell. My impression is that RNZN is pushing the multi-purpose vessel concept about as far as it can go*, hence I'm very interested to see what they end up with. My guess is that they will stay close to the original maximum size, but drop the ice strengthening to same money.
*Well, I guess they don't need a drilling rig, so thats one positive.