Yup - we didn't have enough volume to make it worth doing in house production (you'd do four then wait 30 years) and they weren't complex enough to be worth doing from a technical point of view. I think it was a smart move, be nice if JSS followed through.
Royal Australian Navy Discussions and Updates
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I believe it has more to do with globalisation. There was no competition from developing economies form white collar jobs further, the unions' intransigence provided a high cost, unsustainable base for production of consumer goods without high tariff barriers.
Production line workers earning total salaries (forget the quoted base rates, real salaries are more than double if allowances and conditions are applied) earning more than teachers and salaried young doctors goes along way to explaining the profitability problem.
Defence production can sustain these costs if the government is willing to pay.
K
The UK now produces 10 million vehicles per year from new factories (eg Nissan in the NE) with labour rates less than half of those in Australia and because of volume it is sustainable. Bill Shorten has much to ponder.
Sorry for being off topic
No problem, besides I started it
Anyway I agree with the wages side of what you said and I believe it's a bigger problem than just the unions.
There seems to be a sense of entitlement in this country where many believe they are worth more than they really are while competent para-professionals and professionals are under valued. Basically if your career requires years of study and lower or even unpaid work you are worse off than the demographic pets of the major political parties.
Had government invested in attracting high tech, highly automated and flexible manufacturing we would still be in the game and competitive. There would be fewer jobs for stoners and dumb bogans but we would be growing more of the technically competent people modern industry needs. Major defence projects don't need production workers, or for that matter, hospitality, retail, tourism or hair and beauty workers, they need, competent trades, technical and engineering workers.
Both sides have it wrong and we are stuffed if things don't change.
Err - no. Nowhere near 10 million. Not even 2 million. Still below the 1970s peak, though growing from the low point a few years ago.
The biggest motor vehicle manufacturers in the UK, by numbers produced, are -
1. Nissan
2. Mini (BMW)
3. Jaguar Land Rover.
4. Toyota
5. GM (Vauxhall, etc)
6. Honda
The Japanese all build in new factories in towns where there was no motor industry before they moved in. The others have old plants.
I shouldn't listen to Jeremy Clarkson. I have to break my Top Gear habit now, you've destroyed my trust
As much as I love TG you have to take everything they say with a grain of salt.I shouldn't listen to Jeremy Clarkson. I have to break my Top Gear habit now, you've destroyed my trust
Inaccurate reporting of Navy capability | Navy Daily
When you read CN's reply is it little wonder that many journalists are held with contempt by those in the defence sector.
Interestingly though (apropos our previous discussion) the Admiral states that Sirius will remain in service until the 2020's
Chris
When you read CN's reply is it little wonder that many journalists are held with contempt by those in the defence sector.
Interestingly though (apropos our previous discussion) the Admiral states that Sirius will remain in service until the 2020's
Chris
the unfort thing is that those kinds of articles still resonate with the general public.
sensible and serious debate about subs and capability is beyond recovery in this country.
t68
Well-Known Member
If I remember correctly that replacement of our oiler fleet was to have been done by around the 2016/17 mark, consider that rebuke by the CN that HMAS Sirius to stay in commission till the 2020's. Does that mean we will have a four ship oiler fleet if we go with a proposed off shore build with a possabilty of 3 ships being built?
Hmm I wonder if he went to school with Helen Clark and Phil Goff of NZ. Sounds like something they would come up with.
Well you're wrong. The first two have been delivered on time and on budget.
Update: RAN receives first two MH-60R helos - IHS Jane's 360
Do you think CN pulls stories out of a hat? Give the navy some credit for telling the truth although the way the ABC reports naval matters you could be forgiven for thinking otherwise
I am still trying to work out which "engine parts" those clowns could have reached to burn themselves on in the current boats carry on. Thinking more along the lines of them burning themselves before they were picked up and then saying "look I'm hurt take me to an Australian hospital". That having failed its now plan B, "look what the Australians did to me"
t68
Well-Known Member
Yep 6 months early from the original timetable Infact. Not a bad result really same as the Super Hornet the USN gave up some production slots for the RAAF if the Americans are willing they seem to move mountains for us compared to some of our friends in Europe.
Anixtu
New Member
I'd say the real reason they are not being built in the UK is that the government waited so long to place an order that shipyard capacity had contracted to the point where they couldn't be built in a timely manner concurrent with other projects. They should have been ordered no later than mid-2000s when Swan Hunter and Harland and Wolff were still in business.
It's moot, personally i'm perfectly happy with how the deal was done and how it will be conducted.
I'm from the North East - I'm pissed off as hell that Swan Hunter were left to die - they had a gap in the order books, then a long chain of work - if something MARS like had slipped in there, I'd have been like a pig in shite (to coin the relevant phrase)
Overdue, overly delayed but yes, when ordered today, we look to be getting the best deal possible.
Overdue, overly delayed but yes, when ordered today, we look to be getting the best deal possible.
Lack of planning and vision is one of the biggest killers of industry in the developed world. In a previous job we used to feed specific suppliers work where they were not the cheapest or most efficient because they did work for us that, although we didn't need it all the time, no one else could do anywhere near as well, if at all. I and others left, our replacements saw a cost saving and the old supplier went under, next big order came in and guess who couldn't deliver.
weegee
Active Member
RAN Battle group
Hey guys i happen to come across an old recorded documentary on HMAS Melbourne on youtube and it mentioned that when she went to see she had a battle group accompany her. It did not mention what it was but by the footage it was a Perth class and a couple of river class.
My first question is would an Oberon Sub been along for the ride?
Second question is will we see the same sort of escort arrangement when the LHD's are up and running?
Thanks
Hey guys i happen to come across an old recorded documentary on HMAS Melbourne on youtube and it mentioned that when she went to see she had a battle group accompany her. It did not mention what it was but by the footage it was a Perth class and a couple of river class.
My first question is would an Oberon Sub been along for the ride?
Second question is will we see the same sort of escort arrangement when the LHD's are up and running?
Thanks
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