Not quite - the Nazis never used nerve gas for instance - despite having stocks and every motive to use it against troop concentrations.
Nazi Atomic weapons?
- Thread starter Kiwikid
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Probably more of a factor that when you have an absolute ruler, you only need his (momentary) interest to get funding. So you run a gaudy dog-and-pony show past him, get the approval, and hope he never remembers the presentation the next time you see him.Mostly a belief by Hitler (and that is still around today) that specific platforms can win wars rather than the bigger picture.
After reading Tooze's, I believe part of the reason why late-war Nazi weapon development programs were flashy was for internal propaganda. Kinda like ego-booster, but for the masses, not the generals.
The general picture in 1943 was bleak. Supplies and manpower were running out. People at the top can see things teetering (some would argue it was going down already). But the German people were still laboring diligently in the farms and factories. The conquered population were still being squeezed dry for their resources and labor. So Nazi Germany needed to make their people and the conquered people think that they would still win the war. Thus the flashy projects, messaging of numbers, and careful selection of news. It's not like they can admit that they were losing. Above all, morale of the populace must be kept high. There were to be no riots and no strikes like back in WWI. And the conquered population must be kept cowed.
It didn't work as well as they wanted, but Nazi Germany really wanted to make sure that the domestic front was under their control. The Nazis believed that Germany lost WWI not because they lost to any foreign powers, but because Germany was sabotaged from the inside. So they wanted to make sure that this time it wouldn't happen that way. Hence the need to portray things as a-okay.
Parallels can be drawn with the Iran's bombastic pronouncements of new weapons and with North Korea's announcements of new projects.
The general picture in 1943 was bleak. Supplies and manpower were running out. People at the top can see things teetering (some would argue it was going down already). But the German people were still laboring diligently in the farms and factories. The conquered population were still being squeezed dry for their resources and labor. So Nazi Germany needed to make their people and the conquered people think that they would still win the war. Thus the flashy projects, messaging of numbers, and careful selection of news. It's not like they can admit that they were losing. Above all, morale of the populace must be kept high. There were to be no riots and no strikes like back in WWI. And the conquered population must be kept cowed.
It didn't work as well as they wanted, but Nazi Germany really wanted to make sure that the domestic front was under their control. The Nazis believed that Germany lost WWI not because they lost to any foreign powers, but because Germany was sabotaged from the inside. So they wanted to make sure that this time it wouldn't happen that way. Hence the need to portray things as a-okay.
Parallels can be drawn with the Iran's bombastic pronouncements of new weapons and with North Korea's announcements of new projects.
You know, about 30 years ago I was reading a book on Hitler that commented on that. At the end of WWI corporal Hitler was in the hospital, he had been gassed. I've never found anything on who did the gassing that time. We tend to forget that wind shifting or freak eddies could kill your own men. It must have made an impression on him as he was months in rest care. It also may be why he did not allow it, it being a "nasty" weapon that even could hurt him despite his "charmed" life. I've read that some have stated he was under the impression the Allies had better gas warfare weapons, but I discount this. I also find it interesting that if he thought using gas was wrong on "noble" soldiers then using it on jews, gypsies and other "vermin" would fit into his mind set.Not quite - the Nazis never used nerve gas for instance - despite having stocks and every motive to use it against troop concentrations.
It is an interesting point you developed but I still lean toward an ego booster for Hitler more than anything else, primarily because, although he often bombastically threatened to use secret weapons, really, these were secret. All these plans and projects were not for general consumption, only high level. And you don't have to fund rumors.After reading Tooze's, I believe part of the reason why late-war Nazi weapon development programs were flashy was for internal propaganda. Kinda like ego-booster, but for the masses, not the generals.
The general picture in 1943 was bleak. Supplies and manpower were running out. People at the top can see things teetering (some would argue it was going down already). But the German people were still laboring diligently in the farms and factories. The conquered population were still being squeezed dry for their resources and labor. So Nazi Germany needed to make their people and the conquered people think that they would still win the war. Thus the flashy projects, messaging of numbers, and careful selection of news. It's not like they can admit that they were losing. Above all, morale of the populace must be kept high. There were to be no riots and no strikes like back in WWI. And the conquered population must be kept cowed.
It didn't work as well as they wanted, but Nazi Germany really wanted to make sure that the domestic front was under their control. The Nazis believed that Germany lost WWI not because they lost to any foreign powers, but because Germany was sabotaged from the inside. So they wanted to make sure that this time it wouldn't happen that way. Hence the need to portray things as a-okay.
Parallels can be drawn with the Iran's bombastic pronouncements of new weapons and with North Korea's announcements of new projects.
As an aside, this can come back to bite you. One of the main reasons why the US went to war with Iraq is because Hussain had "secret programs of mass destruction" which the US was hearing about from multiple sources, (one being that it was mentioned to the President of Egypt for example). After the war these didn't exist and the BEST explanation I've heard is that he started these rumors himself and engineered them to "get out" to keep Iran at bay while he was hamstrung. (I don't want to get into a discussion on Bush being a liar and a fake and a warmonger for his own ego - let's assume the truth is he had realistic concerns).
You know, about 30 years ago I was reading a book on Hitler that commented on that. At the end of WWI corporal Hitler was in the hospital, he had been gassed. I've never found anything on who did the gassing that time. We tend to forget that wind shifting or freak eddies could kill your own men. It must have made an impression on him as he was months in rest care. It also may be why he did not allow it, it being a "nasty" weapon that even could hurt him despite his "charmed" life. I've read that some have stated he was under the impression the Allies had better gas warfare weapons, but I discount this. I also find it interesting that if he thought using gas was wrong on "noble" soldiers then using it on jews, gypsies and other "vermin" would fit into his mind set.
It's generally held that the Germans never used nerve gas as they believed (incorrectly) that the allies had it. In fact, the worst poison gas incident of the war involved an allied munitions ship which had mustard gas on board so we know the allies stockpiled gas near front line locations ready for the day it might be needed.
The German bomb program was very poorly funded - largely because Heisenberg believed that the critical mass for Uranium would be much larger than in fact it turned out to be - meaning that from his calculations you'd need far more Uranium than was practicable to extract in the timescale proposed and that the weapon wouldn't be air deliverable.
I have read enough of your comments to respect your opinions. As to the original question we are in total agreement. As to the gas weapon problem I should make clear that I am aware it has been reported that Hitler and his top command were under the impression that the Allies had advanced technology in this area and feared retaliation if they used their weapons first. Then I added I discounted this as the only explanation. I posted a pet theory of mine that Hitler was also adverse for psychological fears due to his almost being killed by this weapon even though he felt he was invincible because he was "charmed", (not catching bullets when others in his unit were often hit). I added that Hitler probably was not that concerned for retaliation for other weapons as if useful he would use them, (As long as he was not retaliated against personally). I simply feel something more is at work here than practical concerns as he seemed to consider all weapons as tools of his trade except this type. Even in his last days in the bunker he did not release them on the "invading barbarian horde", which at that point he certainly could not have cared about retaliation. However, I do not discard the standard judgement you put forth.It's generally held that the Germans never used nerve gas as they believed (incorrectly) that the allies had it. In fact, the worst poison gas incident of the war involved an allied munitions ship which had mustard gas on board so we know the allies stockpiled gas near front line locations ready for the day it might be needed.
The German bomb program was very poorly funded - largely because Heisenberg believed that the critical mass for Uranium would be much larger than in fact it turned out to be - meaning that from his calculations you'd need far more Uranium than was practicable to extract in the timescale proposed and that the weapon wouldn't be air deliverable.