the road runner
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Cheers gf
I have been looking for info regarding the IP rights of Collins , that the Swedish and Australian Governments came to.Is any of this info about the IP rights in the public domain or is it all hush hush?
Royal Australian Navy Discussions and Updates
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I have been looking for info regarding the IP rights of Collins , that the Swedish and Australian Governments came to.Is any of this info about the IP rights in the public domain or is it all hush hush?
I don't think the final IP negotiation material ended up in the pub domain outside of everyone being relieved that it was over and everyone being "happy"
Interesting read as to its effect on SEA1000 I couldn't say. What I do know is TKMS is looking to repeat the same mistakes they made with the IKL2000 bid, i.e. they are telling the RAN what they need rather than asking what they want. It is a little amusing as they have yet to decide internally whether the ram the 214 or the 216 down the RANs throat as the only possible option.
Kockums on the other hand are relationship builders and used to listening to the customer and presenting options. This also has issues as they will rarely ever say not that cant be done or that is risky as we haven't done it before. There is also the issue with the diesels where they talked Australia into going with Hedamora will secretly opting for MTUs on their future subs.
Considering all the hints that RAN Sub Sqdn has dropped at the SIA, you'd think that they would have worked out how to play - they're not the only game in town and they seem to be under the delusion that they hold the aces - which they don't.
I can think of one other player who will come with more clout, more technology and has a AAA regard rating....
A touch of the arrogances and maybe a big ego on the part of a certain CEO and possibly a certain company methinks. Ego writing cheques company can't cash. Sweden may have to use the political approach because it is a national security issue for them.
StevoJH
The Bunker Group
I'm going to guess Electric Boat?
If there have been as many problems with Astute as you suggest, BAe are probably 2nd or third in the list.
Kawasaki Shipbuilding might be a possibility if the Japanese government let them.
Certainly EB have been deeply involved with us sorting early problems and facilitating the combat systems with Collins.
Now that gf has mentioned SIA (Submarine Institute of Australia) there have been a number of interesting papers and presentations/submissions given by Peter Briggs clearly outlining the utility and strategic imperative of the RAN's present and future submarine force. Anyone suggesting that eurosubs are a possibility should read these (see the links in the attached article).
These are all about 5 years old but still totally relevant. (my apologies if these have been linked previously)
Submarine 2020 - Submarine Institute of Australia
Regards
Chris
Well that should take care of some clown in his fishing tinny from getting too close, god help them if something any bigger should decide they make a good target!
Why as a nation do we seem to have this idea that our ships need to be minimally offensively/defensively armed, and then "IF" the ship "MIGHT" be going to an area of conflict we put a MANPAD system in place.
You dont see U.S. ships with a couple of pea-shooters on the stern. The French Mistral class has 2 Simbad launches, the new Japanese ships 2 Phalanax and 2 SeaRam.
These are expensive ships with alot of expensive equipment (Helos, tanks etc..) Plus potentially 1400 of Australia's best young soldiers and seamen.
You dont see U.S. ships with a couple of pea-shooters on the stern. The French Mistral class has 2 Simbad launches, the new Japanese ships 2 Phalanax and 2 SeaRam.
These are expensive ships with alot of expensive equipment (Helos, tanks etc..) Plus potentially 1400 of Australia's best young soldiers and seamen.
EB have been sub building partners with ASC for some time now. Just like they signed up with BIW for destroyer building. Of course leading to a lot of spec that if the Aus Gov was ever to sell ASC then GD would buy them up.
Bay class can be fitted with two Phalanx CIWS if needed. Typhoons provide pretty good defence against small boats and the like. If the threat rating was to be upgraded to ASMD then a full sensor, decoys, CIWS capability could be fitted.
I realise this but what i am trying to get at why dont we fit these systems from the "get go". If something serious were to happen its not as if these systems are going to be in place overnight?
Well those systems can be in place in a few days. Look at the turn around of HMAS Brisbane for ODS.
It's really no different to frigates driving around without full missile magazines or even their helicopters, which they do most of the time. Our amphibs don't drive around full of soldiers all the time either. You can't keep everything at war readiness all the time.
Couldn't that be politically insensitive? Take ET for example, wouldn't arming up our LHD's and frigates possibly send the wrong message and aggravate the "other side"? Whereas fitted for AND WITH you could realistically turn around and say "that's how they're fitted out all the time".
Just my 2c
Because it saves money and our ships aren't being deployed into areas where they need to spend money to protect the ships from anything more than minimal theoretical threats. I could be wrong but I doubt there is a RAN ship deployed anywhere even on exercise, that doesn't have a weapons fit that doesn't outmatch any basic piracy / low level terrorist threat, so to arm them against a higher level threat (ie: another navy) requires investment that isn't necessary. When it is, they get all the good gear you'd expect.
When they do deploy to those areas, they are appropriately armed and equipped. The LHD's which aren't even in-service yet, will be equipped on a permanent basis with 4x 25mm Bushmaster cannons and 6x 12.7mm HMG's.
Those weapons decisively outmatch any non-formal navy threat, so what's the issue? Is someone going to fire anti-ship missiles against us for some reason, outside of any deployment area?
Are you concerned that our Hornet fighters and AP-3C Orions, Wedgetails and Hercules are flying in Malaysia at present without live weapons?
Off topic; what's currently happening in Malaysia?
the road runner
Active Member
Think AD is talking about Royal Malaysian AF Base Butterworth.
RAAF has a number of air craft deployed there.
RMAF Base Butterworth - Royal Australian Air Force
My experiance, very dated, suggests that MFU do carry a weapons load beyond basic ops. Now this is dated but the River Class carried a load out of 4.5, 5 cal, Ikara. AST and sea cat that catered for a response across the specturm of operations.
This being said we could have been a lot better armed.
PS the O boats always carried a load out of 48's as well.
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