Royal Australian Navy Discussions and Updates

[old faithful]

Yes. Pre operational deployment exercise (Rifle Company Butterworth was still considered an operational deployment back then) 5 blank rounds per man, no blank link, no whiz bangs, no rat packs (hot box meals delivered by vehicle in the J at Canungra).

Ohhh, what else... Ah - never fired a 66 (subcal or HEAT), threw only 2 x live grenades in 6 years, designed basic training programs for the ARES that had them signed off as competent ECN 109 Rifleman when they hadn't been allowed enough rounds to even do the basic serial shoot on their SLR's. Very glad I was at the cutting edge of the ADF in one of our 6 Regular battalions with IIRC a posted strength of around 290 troops)

Yes I remember the late 80's early 90's.... Disgraceful. And they wondered why we had retention problems...

That must never be allowed to happen again.
At one stage, 3 RAR, the then golden child of the REGT, had A COY, B COY, HAGAR PL an under strength support coy and admin/BHQ, about 300 in total.

Re Collins Class, now the co-elition is in, what is the speculation regarding the Collins replacment, I remember reading that Johnston did not want to contemplate another Collins debarcle.
Think they might want to consider manning and retention, or there will be no sailors to man them anyway.

 

[gf0012-aust]

Re Collins Class, now the co-elition is in, what is the speculation regarding the Collins replacment, I remember reading that Johnston did not want to contemplate another Collins debarcle.
Think they might want to consider manning and retention, or there will be no sailors to man them anyway.

Hopefully now that he will be in a position to see more classified briefs, Johnston reads the internal reports rather than react to the media analysis

 

[t68]

Hopefully now that he will be in a position to see more classified briefs, Johnston reads the internal reports rather than react to the media analysis

I hope your right GF because some of the things he has said are baffling; one thing that surprises me is that is it appears that Navy has said it doesn’t operationally require a fourth Air Warfare Destroyer according to his doorstop interview on May 8 2013, so possibly no chance for a 4th AWD?

He also has sent out mixed message about the submarine capability in speech on the 15 September 2101 where he has reservations about an evolved Collins but admits the deficiencies of MOTS buy of European designs, but he also did not discount the possibility of nuclear propulsion which was floated by the US Ambassador to Australia *Jeffrey Bleich in February 2012

I guess time will tell how the new elected government will respond but if it’s serious then in all honesty defence needs an over 2% GDP to get its house in order from the neglect of the past government Rudd made all the right noise but it was just noise Tony Abbott has a large job to do now we have to see if it’s just more noise.

Submarine Capability - A National Security Issue - David Johnston Speech | Liberal Party of Australia

Doorstop - Future submarine project > David Johnston, Liberal Senator for Western Australia

US floats nuclear subs option

 

[John Newman]

I agree that Johnston has certainly said negative things about the Collins Class, but I suppose that has to be expected to a degree, when you are in opposition you do everything to get a headline and bag the government.

On the other hand, I remember earlier this year, at the time of the new White Paper release, Abbott contradicted Johnston with a different more positive comment:

Coalition gives differing scorecards for Collins Class subs - ABC News (Australian Broadcasting Corporation)

The relevant quotes are below:

When asked whether he would like to see new Collins Class submarines, Senator Johnston said, "I wouldn't want to go back near Collins if it was the last thing on earth that we had to do, I think Collins has been a very expensive disaster".

But when asked about the fleet, Mr Abbott offered a different opinion.

"I think that the Collins have had their moments, but the military personnel that I speak to tell them (sic) that when they are operational the Collins are a very effective piece of kit, so the problem with the Collins is keeping them operational," he said.

We'll just have to wait and see what unfolds when the Libs produce their new White Paper next year.

 

[gf0012-aust]

I agree that Johnston has certainly said negative things about the Collins Class, but I suppose that has to be expected to a degree, when you are in opposition you do everything to get a headline and bag the government.

On the other hand, I remember earlier this year, at the time of the new White Paper release, Abbott contradicted Johnston with a different more positive comment:

Coalition gives differing scorecards for Collins Class subs - ABC News (Australian Broadcasting Corporation)

The relevant quotes are below:



We'll just have to wait and see what unfolds when the Libs produce their new White Paper next year.

The difference is that Johnstone hasn't been briefed prior - whereas Abbott would have - as well as having had industry pushing their barrow

there's a very strong cohort within the SIA who want nuke powered subs - and industry will be holding him to account on being friendly and open to business

nukes won/t get up though

 

[ASSAIL]

Just a quick change of topic - there has been an almost total news blank on HMAS Success. Will she be ready and capable of full operational status by the time the Cantabria leaves? I know she is slated to join the IFR but will she be 100%?

 

[Volkodav]

What of patrol boats now the Libs are back in? The current design and its sustainment model was there baby so I wonder how this will effect the current contract, and the evolution of a replacement. My suspicion is more money to fix the current maintenance issues and a possible supplementary capability but no rush to replace the ACPB and definitely no OCV/ OPV

 

[gf0012-aust]

What of patrol boats now the Libs are back in? The current design and its sustainment model was there baby so I wonder how this will effect the current contract, and the evolution of a replacement. My suspicion is more money to fix the current maintenance issues and a possible supplementary capability but no rush to replace the ACPB and definitely no OCV/ OPV

BPC will be growing, they're already planning for a bump in positions

 

[John Newman]

BPC will be growing, they're already planning for a bump in positions

What I think will be interesting to watch, is on the one hand the new Government is likely to 'sit on its hands' to a degree regarding the direction of defence, and specifically on equipment decisions, until their new White Paper is completed and delivered in 18mths time, and on the other hand their very high profile election commitment to 'stop the boats'.

One the one side will be the pure political decisions such as the threat to towing back boats, introduction of TPV's, etc, in the attempt to stop or slow the flow even further.

On the other side might be more ships and resources available and that's the one of the questions I have, how quickly can those resources be added?

Does it mean increasing the production run of the Cape Class PB's for example to be used by customs? Does it mean the quick lease or purchase of existing ships from somewhere to increase both size and capability of the RAN patrol fleet and the Customs fleet?

Whilst I think that more money and resources will definitely be thrown at the border protection commitment, I don't necessarily see a replacement class for the ACPB's being announced any time soon.

 

[Volkodav]

May be a good time to Chat to Spain about the lease of a Meteoro or two for a couple of years. An issue how ever is the shortage of crews (maybe I should say qualified and experienced crews) that additional hulls will make worse not better.

 

[t68]

Found this on another forum, navy has a new toy. I did not now that they did things like this. We learn something new everyday.

Canberra command team gets first taste of driving an LHD | Navy Daily

 

[ADMk2]

can anyone identify the (what i Assume is an) amphibious warfare ship that was berthed near cairnscross drydock in the Brisbane river this morning 7/09/13?

HMAS Choules I believe.

 

[ausklr76]

I wonder now that we have a new government what are the chances of us acquiring a few v-22 osprey to work of the Canberra class. With tandem thrust and the exercise in the last couple of weeks in the Northern Territory with our army and the us Marine stationed up there, someone must be watching and thinking "what if we had some of those".

 

[ngatimozart]

I wonder now that we have a new government what are the chances of us acquiring a few v-22 osprey to work of the Canberra class. With tandem thrust and the exercise in the last couple of weeks in the Northern Territory with our army and the us Marine stationed up there, someone must be watching and thinking "what if we had some of those".

They are quite expensive to own and to operate and I think the RAN have more pressing acquisition concerns.

 

[King Wally]

I wonder now that we have a new government what are the chances of us acquiring a few v-22 osprey to work of the Canberra class. With tandem thrust and the exercise in the last couple of weeks in the Northern Territory with our army and the us Marine stationed up there, someone must be watching and thinking "what if we had some of those".

Next to no chance sorry. The LHD's are better suited to MRH-90's or Chinooks anyway from what I understand. I believe I read once that there is a single position on the deck that could accommodate a V-22 landing but its definitely not designed around that as the framework.

Unless its related to border protection and stopping the boats etc I would be expecting most major investments to end up being announced when ever they get around to their next white paper.

 

[Todjaeger]

I wonder now that we have a new government what are the chances of us acquiring a few v-22 osprey to work of the Canberra class. With tandem thrust and the exercise in the last couple of weeks in the Northern Territory with our army and the us Marine stationed up there, someone must be watching and thinking "what if we had some of those".

I suspect they would keep on thinking that, until they saw the pricetag. IIRC the 2012 flyaway cost of an MV-22 Osprey was ~USD$69 mil. Would they have a use? Of course, but I suspect the high cost along with significant capability overlap from other ADF assets would preclude their purchase. OTOH if an EV-22 AEW were to be developed... The situation might become quite different.

-Cheers

 

[gf0012-aust]

I wonder now that we have a new government what are the chances of us acquiring a few v-22 osprey to work of the Canberra class. With tandem thrust and the exercise in the last couple of weeks in the Northern Territory with our army and the us Marine stationed up there, someone must be watching and thinking "what if we had some of those".

about zero %

 

[John Newman]

Talking about the MV-22, there was a report last night on ABC news of the US Marines packing up their gear after exercises onto a US Navy LHD in Darwin.

There was some nice vision of MV-22's on the forward deck, what I was impressed with was their size and even more impressed how closely they were parked together with all the 'go fast' gear nice and neatly folded up.

Pretty amazing how compact the tilt wing, engines and blades can be, It would be interesting to know how much % of the cost of each airframe is attributed to that rather complex looking mechanism.

Anyway, I can't see us having any in inventory anytime soon either, maybe if defence spending gets to 2% sooner rather than later, a case might be made.

 

[ausklr76]

Next to no chance sorry. The LHD's are better suited to MRH-90's or Chinooks anyway from what I understand. I believe I read once that there is a single position on the deck that could accommodate a V-22 landing but its definitely not designed around that as the framework.

Unless its related to border protection and stopping the boats etc I would be expecting most major investments to end up being announced when ever they get around to their next white paper.

I agree that the chooks and mrh-90 are both good helos that might be suited to op's on the LHD's, BUT as far as i know neither have an auto blabe folding capability, which in turn means they become very labor intensive when setting up for flying ops. Can you imagine how much work it is going to take to set up say 4 mrh-90, 2 chooks and maybe 2 tigers for defence of this package.

 

[old faithful]

Saw a pair taking off from the airport in darwin the other day, I was driving at the time, and they were climbing, very cool to them in the air, bt for @$70m, can't see a roo painted on them any time soon.

Think I would rather see a dozen merlins for RAN use, but can't see that happening either.