Falklands Island defence force

[Strangelove]

It's my own estimate. Wikipedia has it at 80-225, but going on there being only 3000 Falklanders, and I'm guessing a few hundred of that figure are only there in the short/medium term/ part of the time on business, it doesn't seem feasible. Also, as a reservist myself, I bet there are some oldies on their list who aren't trained strength / can't be relied upon to be present/useful. Even if they have 100 company strength in total, I think 50 would be nearer the figure in practice.

I'd like to see a source for that number of 50 please, not because i'm disagreeing with you, more that i've never actually seen a proper figure given as an estimate as to the size of the company.

AFAIK the general figure thrown around for a company is 100, but i'd love to be shown otherwise in this respect.

 

[RobWilliams]

Oh you're talking about the FIDF light infantry company? I was on about the rotated British infantry company

The BBC puts the figures of the number of reservists at around 200. It might be possible that the upper limit of the Wiki figure being the total number and the 80 being the number which makes up the core of the regular company in peacetime.

Just a shot in the dark though.

 

[Strangelove]

The RN site says 100 troops were involved in amphibious training manoeuvres involving HMS Clyde and the Army's most recent (Sept 2012) Falklands Roulement company. This forum won't let me post the link until I have posted more, but google FIRE IN THE HOLE… CLYDE’S SAILORS LET RIP ON LAND to find the story on the RN website.

 

[RobWilliams]

The RN says 100 troops of the roulement British Army infantry company, not members of the FIDF.

I'm gunna use the BBC's figure for 200 reservists in regards to the FIDF.

 

[Strangelove]

I think that's a stretch though considering the overall population of the islands as a whole. I quote Sept 12 census figures below my own thoughts.

-2,563 seems the figure to work from.
-We can presume that the approx 278 civilian contractors (making up the overall 2,841 census figure ) living with the military at Pleasant are not part of the FIDF (reserve) unit.
-Minus 5.4% (138) who consider themselves Chilean nationality = 2425.
-Minus 465 children aged 0-15 = 1960; and minus 301 over 65s = 1659.
-almost 50:50 males:females = 829 working age males:830 working age females.
Wiki tells me 9% ave of British Army is female; 17.5% of Australian reserve is female, so I estimate FIDF female proportion is average between the two = 13.25%.
That gives us a maximum of 829 males / 109 females = 938.
The islands census mentions 20% of islanders have 2 jobs (of which we can presume the 2nd jobs of some of those 20% are FIDF reservists).
The maximum possible range of my estimate (20% of 938) = 187 reservists. However it is reasonable to estimate that a large part of that 20% figure actually have 2 different jobs (fishermen / running an additional business/service). If it's 10%, we are left with 94 reservists, which I think is probably a reasonably accurate estimate.

Census data below.

The Falkland Islands Government published the first results from the 2012 Census today.

The normal resident population of the Falkland Islands on census day (15 April 2012) was 2,841.

This was a decrease of 4 per cent since 2006, a decline entirely attributable to the decrease in the number of civilian contractors at Mount Pleasant Airfield (MPA). As non-residents, military personnel are not included in the census.

Excluding contractors at MPA, the true population figure of the Falkland Islands is 2,563 – indicating that the population has remained static since 2006.

Stanley is home to 2121 people, 75 per cent of the population, an increase of less than 1 per cent since 2006. The population in Camp (areas outside of Stanley) has declined by 3.3 per cent to 351 people.

The census shows that 59 per cent of residents consider their national identity to be ‘Falkland Islander’. 29 per cent consider themselves British; 9.8 per cent St Helenian, and 5.4 per cent Chilean.

Jan Cheek, Member of the Legislative Assembly said:

“I’d like to thank the Policy Unit for their hard work in carrying out and analysing the Census data, and the public for their participation. The census is a vital tool for planners and policy-makers and will help inform decision making for years to come. The figures provide a wealth of information relating to our home and our people, and we look forward to further insights as the numbers are analysed further. “

Children aged 0-15 numbered 465 or 16.5 per cent of the overall population of the Islands – a similar number to that reported in the 2006 Census. Elderly persons (defined to be those aged 65 and over) numbered 301 or 10.7 per cent of the population. Comparison with the previous Census confirms that the trend is towards an aging population with the elderly population having increased by almost 14 per cent since 2006.

Excluding persons living in communal accommodation, the Census recorded a total of 1269 households in the Falkland Islands. The vast majority of houses are detached (73 per cent). A total of 98 households (7.9 per cent) reported that they live in a flat, and 48 (3.9 per cent) live permanently in a mobile home. The Census shows that there is a very high level of home ownership in Stanley (62 per cent) and Camp (70 per cent).

Further findings include:

- The unemployment rate is 1 per cent.

- Almost 20 per cent of persons in employment have more than one job.

- The sex ratio in the Islands is a very balanced 101 males per 100 females

For further information please contact:

Falkland Islands Government

Jamie Fotheringham – Head of Policy

The RN says 100 troops of the roulement British Army infantry company, not members of the FIDF.

I'm gunna use the BBC's figure for 200 reservists in regards to the FIDF.

 

[Loski]

This might be a bit late but the MOD did not enlarge the FIDF but the Falkland Islands Govt did as the FIDF receives no funding from the UK govt, The AUG's were bought because they were better than the SA80 and cheaper

 

[RobWilliams]

IIRC they were bought during the period where the L85A1 was suffering from pretty bad reliability problems, that's what I remember anyway.

 

[Loski]

When the Defence Force decided to replace the knacered L1A1,s the FI govt aproached the MOD and were loaned 2 SA80's to trial against the AUG and another wepon I dont know which, One of the SA80,s went US before it got to the range and the 3rd contender was deemed unsuitable leaving the AUG and the SA80, the govt looked into both weapons the mod would not suply the 200 or so rifles untill all of the UKs needs were met including TA and Cadets and the price quoted was around the £1000.00 each plus spares and acessories where as Ster could supply there and then for less including spares and acessories, And a training corse in Austria for 2 Defence Force small arms instructors in the total price.I dont know if the Defence Force is looking to replace the AUG's in the future but if bthey do it will not be with SA80's as they are no longer in production.

[Mod edit[
Gentlemen (& any ladies present, but I've not spotted any), please remember that quoting the previous post in full is deprecated. This & several following posts by various people edited to remove such unnecessary quoting.
[/Mod edit]

 

[Loski]

Sorry double post

.

 

[1805]

I do wonder what is the role of the FIDF, could it seriously make a go of defending the islands, without British forces. I think it could have a chance but it would have to model itself more on the IDF than the Home Guard. I think it should, UK support is currently strong but can it always be guaranteed?

How about compulsory military training for all men and women 16-55, maybe c1200.

Focused on long range firepower, snipers/marksman and ditch the GPMG, split the role between the 50 cal Browning and a return to a modern Bren type LMG (Negev NG7 or Pecheneg) chambered to 7.62x51mm, with a very high ratio of guns to infantry of say 1 to 3-4.

I would keep the AUGs solely for personal defence, of support troops

Add in some 81 mortars, MANPAD (Mistrals) and Hellfire, and maybe some CB90s?

Would 105mm guns be beyond them?

I would also offer to provide half the crew of the RN guard ship OPV.

 

[Volkodav]

I think part of it is the requirement to put up some form of resistance under international law. I could be totally wrong but isn't that why the RM Commandos on South Georgia engage the Argentinians before surrendering, to provide proof that the annexation was opposed?

 

[RobWilliams]

I'm perfectly content with the status quo. We have a responsibility to deter potential aggression from any belligerent neighbours, a posture which didn't exist before 1982.

IIRC the FIDF call to arms in 82 turned out shockingly few, unsurprising given the British presence on the islands to back them up. This time however we have extensive facilities on the islands plus the FIDF is trained by us. Personally, a light company of FIDF infantry backed up by the British roulement company + 16 Regt RA + 4 Typhoons + HMS Clyde + Destroyer/frigate is perfectly reasonable in my mind.

Whilst Argentina continues to be aggressive to the islanders, Britain will maintain the commitment to the islands. Whilst we can look to events beyond '82 and say "where were we then?", the difference is that now a war has been fought and people have died protecting those islands, that's not something people will let us forget particularly soon nor the events that allowed such an event to take place

Not to mention we've significantly invested in Mount Pleasant Airfield to be able to be used by us, we get access to decent training facilities and now the area is only bound to get more tense when hydrocarbon production begins on the islands.

 

[1805]

I agree it would be difficult for a UK Government to abandon the Falklands and less likely with oil in the region. But fighting and dying for a place means little, we have done that in countless places in the post 1945 period and then left when it suited us.

But the Falkland Islands do face a real and long term threat, how will things be in say 30-40 years time....Argentina could still be a basket case, (very likely) but what if they recovered and followed Brazil. They should take their liberty seriously, it supports their case for self determination, their strongest case with the UN, not just relying on the protection of a colonial power.

 

[StobieWan]

The FI cannot defend themselves without UK assistance - their population is barely 1200. Those are the numbers. They can assist in intel gathering, provide a delaying action to any advance across the islands but that's about it.

 

[1805]

There is an earlier post that puts the population at about 2,400, excluding base workers and foreign nationals. Wiki also quote an estimate of GDP at $164m 2007, so if they allocated 2% to FIDF they would have c£2m p.a.

I am not saying they could defend it without UK assistance, but could they do more to reduce the burden on the UK taxpayer, thereby helping to maintain that commitment.

 

[RobWilliams]

I agree it would be difficult for a UK Government to abandon the Falklands and less likely with oil in the region. But fighting and dying for a place means little, we have done that in countless places in the post 1945 period and then left when it suited us.

Such endeavours might have been possible in the past, but with the invention of incredibly fast mass media distribution and easier access to information via the internet, such a move couldn't be scuffed under the carpet and hushed up like we did in the past, it's 2013.

To suggest the UK could just 'pull out' when it suits us is ridiculous in the extreme.

They should take their liberty seriously, it supports their case for self determination, their strongest case with the UN, not just relying on the protection of a colonial power.

You don't appear to be keeping up to date with what the Falklands Government is doing, if you think they're just sitting back and thinking "Ah don't worry, Britain can handle it all" is false.

 

[Loski]

There is an earlier post that puts the population at about 2,400, excluding base workers and foreign nationals. Wiki also quote an estimate of GDP at $164m 2007, so if they allocated 2% to FIDF they would have c£2m p.a.

I am not saying they could defend it without UK assistance, but could they do more to reduce the burden on the UK taxpayer, thereby helping to maintain that commitment.

I think the total number of Falkland Islanders is between 2000 and 2500 but not all are resident in the islands the number of islanders resident is more like between 1500 and 2000 and I think membership of the DF is around 100 so there is no way that the DF could fend off an attack by the argies without UK assistance.

 

[1805]

Such endeavours might have been possible in the past, but with the invention of incredibly fast mass media distribution and easier access to information via the internet, such a move couldn't be scuffed under the carpet and hushed up like we did in the past, it's 2013.

To suggest the UK could just 'pull out' when it suits us is ridiculous in the extreme.



You don't appear to be keeping up to date with what the Falklands Government is doing, if you think they're just sitting back and thinking "Ah don't worry, Britain can handle it all" is false.

I am not suggesting either, their recent vote was an excellent move. But they could do with looking at their defence creatively, maybe from other sources on information guidance. They will never get that from the MOD, creative is not in its DNA.

 

[swerve]

There is an earlier post that puts the population at about 2,400, excluding base workers and foreign nationals. .,

2425 excluding MoD contract workers & Chilean nationals. It includes ca 1510 who consider their nationality to be Falkland Islander, 740 British, 250 St. Helenan. The total (including Chileans) is over 103%, so there must be some who claimed more than one nationality, probably British plus one of FI or St. Helena.

1973 have islander status, which gives voting rights. Another 121 have permanent residency rights. Both are carefully guarded, because of fears about being flooded by Argentineans, but the effect seems to be to discourage immigrants from other countries, & the population has stopped growing - again. It fell for 50 years after 1931, & by 1981 was well below the 1901 figure, & only 24 more than in 1891.

 

[1805]

2425 excluding MoD contract workers & Chilean nationals. It includes ca 1510 who consider their nationality to be Falkland Islander, 740 British, 250 St. Helenan. The total (including Chileans) is over 103%, so there must be some who claimed more than one nationality, probably British plus one of FI or St. Helena.

1973 have islander status, which gives voting rights. Another 121 have permanent residency rights. Both are carefully guarded, because of fears about being flooded by Argentineans, but the effect seems to be to discourage immigrants from other countries, & the population has stopped growing - again. It fell for 50 years after 1931, & by 1981 was well below the 1901 figure, & only 24 more than in 1891.

Interesting that their policy seems to discourages immigrants, I would think some policies of encouraging certain types of ex servicemen would make sense (land grants/property/jobs).

They need to free themselves somehow from British infantry doctrine to be able to punch above their weight...something the UK does not have to do so can't be expected to be experts in.