US Navy News and updates

[RobWilliams]

As much as people give it a rough ride because of the cost issues, it appears to be such an advancement over the steam cats.

• Decreases airframe stress on launch
• Launch energy can be customised to the aircraft it's launching
• Can be used to launch lighter aircraft
• Lighter system
• Decreased maintenance + crewing requirements

At least, that's what my understanding is, turns out EMALS has launched more aircraft than I thought, I just thought it was F-35C + Growler but it's done a T45, C-2 & E-2D.

I'll link 'em, just in case anyone's interested.

C-2A Greyhound EMALS launch
F/A-18E EMALS launch
E-2D Hawkeye EMALS launch
F-35C EMALS launch
EA-18G EMALS launch

Would be a bit overkill having EMALS with a ski jump wouldn't it :

EDIT: Hm, naming the URLs actually worked.

 

[colay]

No rest for the weary. The Cyclone-class have seen hard service and continue to soldier on until LCS arrive in numbers. They may be old but are still capable and will be retrofitted with Griffin capability to better cope with thee threat posed by small boat swarms.

5th Fleet PC Force Grows to Eight Ships

5th Fleet PC Force Grows to Eight Ships

NAVAL SUPPORT ACTIVITY, Bahrain (NNS) -- Coastal Patrol (PC) ships USS Tempest (PC 2), USS Squall (PC 7) and USS Thunderbolt (PC 12) arrived pierside in Bahrain July 3, as part of a realignment that will see a total of eight PCs permanently stationed in the U.S. 5th Fleet area of responsibility (AOR).

USS Hurricane (PC 3) and USS Monsoon (PC 4) will complete the Navy's plan to station 10 PCs in Bahrain by spring of 2014.

"Having additional PCs here in Bahrain will give us incredible flexibility in the 5th Fleet area of operations since they are uniquely capable of operating in this dynamic environment," said Vice Adm. John W. Miller, commander, U.S. Naval Forces Central Command, U.S. 5th Fleet, Combined Maritime Forces. "They will allow for continued maritime security operations and theater security cooperation in the 5th Fleet."

PCs provide the U.S. Navy with a fast, reliable platform that can respond to emergent requirements in a shallow water environment.

 

[harryriedl]

The threat is a serious one, specially in confined waters such as the Strait of Hormuz. Swarming boat attack was one of the asymmetric tactics employed by Red Force during the Millennium Challenge exercise in 2002 that bloodied a simulated US Navy task force. The numbers and
capabilities of the small boat threat have only grown since.
Iran's fast attack craft fleet: behind the hyperbole - Naval Technology

I do not like that OPFOR task being trotted out every time their is criticism of LCS overprices nature and odd specs as as 02 challenge was firstly a war game and its strange obsession with those attacks which justifies the extreme cost for what was meant as a affordable replacement for almost everything smaller than a burke.

firstly it was an imbalanced war-game as the marine commander had far more situational awareness(both of his fleet and US Navy)
secondly their was clear communication between assets which in war situation would be extremely unlikely(with a possible necessity to use radio silence) with no navy or joint asset jamming of intel which allowed the complex matter of organizing swarm attacks without Blue force being able to predict movements.
another area also neglated by those preaching about how their is this desperate need to a MULTI BILLION DOLLAR VESSEL to deal with this threat short of a war with Iran in the next 10 years(unlikely) most of this special swarm stuff will just be a waste.

Colay I feel you a vastly over egging the threat here and I would love to know how much better this old speedboats and ancient soviet FAC's(looking at the likely users of the tactic and likely enemies). When frigates and Destroyers have a huge arsenal available to deal with these small targets

 

[colay]

Hopefully I have deciphered your message correctly..

I do not like that OPFOR task being trotted out every time their is criticism of LCS overprices nature and odd specs as as 02 challenge was firstly a war game and its strange obsession with those attacks which justifies the extreme cost for what was meant as a affordable replacement for almost everything smaller than a burke.

One objective of conducting such exercises is to learn lessons and in this case it was demonstrated that swarming small boat attacks coordinated with other asymmetric threats could wreak havoc vs a vastly superior conventional fleet.

firstly it was an imbalanced war-game as the marine commander had far more situational awareness(both of his fleet and US Navy)
secondly their was clear communication between assets which in war situation would be extremely unlikely(with a possible necessity to use radio silence) with no navy or joint asset jamming of intel which allowed the complex matter of organizing swarm attacks without Blue force being able to predict movements.

War isn't fair. Both sides were allowed complete freedom to operate as they wisked. The Red Force Commander exercised innovative tactics employing low-tech assets to achieve tactical surprise vs Blue Force and register a crushing victory.

another area also neglated by those preaching about how their is this desperate need to a MULTI BILLION DOLLAR VESSEL to deal with this threat short of a war with Iran in the next 10 years(unlikely) most of this special swarm stuff will just be a waste.

What MULTIBILLION DOLLAR,VESSEL? LCS? Also, why a 10-year threat window, what happens,after 2023?

Colay I feel you a vastly over egging the threat here and I would love to know how much better this old speedboats and ancient soviet FAC's(looking at the likely users of the tactic and likely enemies). When frigates and Destroyers have a huge arsenal available to deal with these small targets.

That was one of the lessons learned from MC2002. Such ships are constrained and vulnerable in littoral waters.

 

[aussienscale]

Would be a bit overkill having EMALS with a ski jump wouldn't it :

Depends, IIRC the manufacturer highlighted this fact pretty heavily when development started, may have been a pitch to the RN ?

EMALS used in this way with either a STOBAR Carrier, or a Cavour/JC style LHD/LHA would be an interesting combination, launch weights for the aircraft would be considerably increased

Cheers

 

[Belesari]

See thats the problem people say "Oh well thats not going to happen for at least another 10 years!"

OK how long does it take to design, test, and get into production a modern aircraft or ship? At least 10 years.

Small boat swarms are also one of the main places we have been found lacking. All it takes is a enemy willing to lose thousands to kill a CSG and its crews. We have been working to build BMD and other systems sense the mid 60's at least.


And LCS is a combination of a dozen different things. I still believe the problem is to much was crammed into one program and instead of focusing on 2 ship designs for 2 specific mission sets the said all in one and give us sprint speed of 50+kts.

So instead of Cheap, maneuverable, Patrol vessels like the original idea called for we have....LCS. I think the Idea of LCS was workable I think what they did to it was terrible.

I do not like that OPFOR task being trotted out every time their is criticism of LCS overprices nature and odd specs as as 02 challenge was firstly a war game and its strange obsession with those attacks which justifies the extreme cost for what was meant as a affordable replacement for almost everything smaller than a burke.

firstly it was an imbalanced war-game as the marine commander had far more situational awareness(both of his fleet and US Navy)
secondly their was clear communication between assets which in war situation would be extremely unlikely(with a possible necessity to use radio silence) with no navy or joint asset jamming of intel which allowed the complex matter of organizing swarm attacks without Blue force being able to predict movements.
another area also neglated by those preaching about how their is this desperate need to a MULTI BILLION DOLLAR VESSEL to deal with this threat short of a war with Iran in the next 10 years(unlikely) most of this special swarm stuff will just be a waste.

Colay I feel you a vastly over egging the threat here and I would love to know how much better this old speedboats and ancient soviet FAC's(looking at the likely users of the tactic and likely enemies). When frigates and Destroyers have a huge arsenal available to deal with these small targets

 

[harryriedl]

See thats the problem people say "Oh well thats not going to happen for at least another 10 years!"

OK how long does it take to design, test, and get into production a modern aircraft or ship? At least 10 years.

Small boat swarms are also one of the main places we have been found lacking. All it takes is a enemy willing to lose thousands to kill a CSG and its crews. We have been working to build BMD and other systems sense the mid 60's at least.


And LCS is a combination of a dozen different things. I still believe the problem is to much was crammed into one program and instead of focusing on 2 ship designs for 2 specific mission sets the said all in one and give us sprint speed of 50+kts.

So instead of Cheap, maneuverable, Patrol vessels like the original idea called for we have....LCS. I think the Idea of LCS was workable I think what they did to it was terrible.

but looking at these forces its not technology which is the limitation its the battle management. Yes their might be a possibility of lots of suicide craft but but marshalling these craft without having a an overall view.

Yes for example the Taliban has been able to do some very sophisticated operations but no of the likely forces has any experience what so ever in large scale military manovers at sea, for example Iran were to use its FAC's would end up in the same way as the Iraqis.
I just can't see the justification for spending almost as much as Burk FII for primarly dealing with this threat when 95% of its time will be gunboat duties where sea-keeping, comfort and easy maintenance is the priority and the LCS has none of these attributes.

 

[CB90]

but looking at these forces its not technology which is the limitation its the battle management. Yes their might be a possibility of lots of suicide craft but but marshalling these craft without having a an overall view.

Yes for example the Taliban has been able to do some very sophisticated operations but no of the likely forces has any experience what so ever in large scale military manovers at sea, for example Iran were to use its FAC's would end up in the same way as the Iraqis.
I just can't see the justification for spending almost as much as Burk FII for primarly dealing with this threat when 95% of its time will be gunboat duties where sea-keeping, comfort and easy maintenance is the priority and the LCS has none of these attributes.

What are you talking about, and where are you getting your information from?

Battle management? It's been said before, but Millenium Challenge 2002. Then pull up a map and take a look at how you go from the GOO to the SAG. Lots of commercial or low tech ways for them to coordinate there.

Iran has plenty of experience doing this. Exercise Noble Prophet. Every year.

LCS is not problematic in "sea keeping, comfort, and easy maintenance."

You're throwing out wild accusations with no references or credibility.

 

[harryriedl]

What are you talking about, and where are you getting your information from?

Battle management? It's been said before, but Millenium Challenge 2002. Then pull up a map and take a look at how you go from the GOO to the SAG. Lots of commercial or low tech ways for them to coordinate there.

Iran has plenty of experience doing this. Exercise Noble Prophet. Every year.

LCS is not problematic in "sea keeping, comfort, and easy maintenance."

You're throwing out wild accusations with no references or credibility.

pardon I am offering a different perspective where their is this justification for this huge expense on what I see as a marginal threat.
Anything commercial in that area will be jammed or listened into in seconds any anything off the shelf will have the same problem (you cannot manage a swarm though BBM).
Anything lower tech than radios you dealing with line of sight which is then very easy to counter (either due to reaction time, range ect) all farily obvious especially in the generally easy waters of the gulf.

On the Iranian ops how can they simulate conflict aganist a NATO force when they have had virtually no contact with NATO forces (short of the kidnapping of the RN sailors and gun pointing around the Iraqi Iranian boarder) this is not the same as doing under wartime conditions.

One of the most simple way is Helos or UAV's with Hellfires or better. The ship should be nowhere near the shore if their are risks of small vessels especially with extended range munitions and proliferations of small UAV's such as Scan Eagle.

 

[CB90]

You don't need to micromanage a swarm. Write a good set of orders, make a good plan, and let quantity and initiative do the work for you.
We don't do blanket jamming of commercial EM spectrum everytime we operate there (which would pretty much be all the time). That would piss EVERYBODY in the region off, particularly since there are no formal hostilities justifying such steps.
There are plenty of ways to get around being listened into. Literally as many as the imagination can generate.

Simulation is a part of every wargame. You don't have to have capital ships to simulate attacking one.

Ships "shouldn't" be near shore, but the SOH is literally ~25nm wide and it's the only way in or out.
That'se easily LOS distance. You get CELL PHONE reception at that distance.
Either you figure out how to fight through that, or you just stay the hell out in the first place...which would be my personal choice.

 

[RobWilliams]

The X-47B made it's first arrested landing on the USS George H W Bush on the 10th July off of the Virginia coast

X-47B Makes First Arrested Landing at Sea (Updated 5:10 p.m, EDT)

"It isn't very often you get a glimpse of the future. Today, those of us aboard USS George H.W. Bush got that chance as we witnessed the X-47B make its first ever arrested landing aboard an aircraft carrier," said Secretary of the Navy Ray Mabus. "The operational unmanned aircraft soon to be developed have the opportunity to radically change the way presence and combat power are delivered from our aircraft carriers."

...

During today's testing, the X-47B completed the 35-minute transit from Pax River to the carrier and caught the 3 wire with the aircraft's tailhook. The arrested landing effectively brought the aircraft from approximately 145 knots to stop in less than 350 feet.

Shortly after the initial landing, the aircraft was launched off the ship using the carrier's catapult. The X-47B then proceeded to execute one more arrested landing.

Following on from the USN's UCLASS requirements, it would appear to be that the strike capability of US CVNs will primarily be delivered by manned fighters like the F-18E/F-35C rather than any UCLASS development for the forseeable future.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?feature=player_embedded&v=RzKDCO9KuaI

 

[Belesari]

Damn ya beat me to it!

Its sad that I thought it was so awesome my nerd is coming out.

I'm not sure. It might be they are looking to get something in operation faster than normal and under cost. Plus with many modern systems these can do most strike missions fine in a lot of the places we have been over the last 10 years or so.

I just think these have the capability to be very useful.

Just give the USN more range without piggy backing.

The X-47B made it's first arrested landing on the USS George H W Bush on the 10th July off of the Virginia coast

X-47B Makes First Arrested Landing at Sea (Updated 5:10 p.m, EDT)



Following on from the USN's UCLASS requirements, it would appear to be that the strike capability of US CVNs will primarily be delivered by manned fighters like the F-18E/F-35C rather than any UCLASS development for the forseeable future.

X-47B Completes First and Second Carrier-based Arrested Landings - YouTube

 

[colay]

Congratulations Navy! It even managed to catch wire no. 3, like it's organic counterparts aim to do. Then it cheekily cut short he tests so it could fly back to the mainland, no doubt to headed to the O-Club for some beers and to do a little bragging with his buddies.

Oh, it also managed to pull it off with a really short tailhook arm similar to that on the F-35C. Worth noting..

 

[ASSAIL]

Is it envisaged that all the flight controllers sit in a onshore facility to control these aircraft or will there be a requirement for them to be aboard the CV?

That may have interesting consequences as the majority of carrier ops becomes UAV. Blackshoes will be back in command of CV's as there will be a decreasing brownshoe involvement at sea

But seriously, as the technology matures there will be some interesting changes to the dynamics of carrier life.

 

[CB90]

Is it envisaged that all the flight controllers sit in a onshore facility to control these aircraft or will there be a requirement for them to be aboard the CV?

That may have interesting consequences as the majority of carrier ops becomes UAV. Blackshoes will be back in command of CV's as there will be a decreasing brownshoe involvement at sea

But seriously, as the technology matures there will be some interesting changes to the dynamics of carrier life.

Huh...maybe. I think it would end up depending on just whether UAV flying still requires the same level of specialization as it does currently. If so, maybe not. But if it simplifies things and gives them room for more generalized training (shipboard ops), then it could definitely be the start of some interesting changes. Big changes possibly to the blackshoe communities as well. Non-tailhook aviators already do a lot of the shipboard work for flight ops.

 

[colay]

Increasingly these robots are going to enjoy greater levels of autonomy though there will always be a need for the man-in-the-loop somewhere.. on land, aboard ship, airborne to intervene as needed on an exception basis, I would be very interested to learn more about the avionics/sensors package intended for the follow-on UCLASS program. IMO it would be great if it had something similar to that on the F-35 as a big part of its survivability will depend on comprehensive SA and the ability to detect and avoid potential threats.

 

[John Newman]

Is it envisaged that all the flight controllers sit in a onshore facility to control these aircraft or will there be a requirement for them to be aboard the CV?

That may have interesting consequences as the majority of carrier ops becomes UAV. Blackshoes will be back in command of CV's as there will be a decreasing brownshoe involvement at sea

But seriously, as the technology matures there will be some interesting changes to the dynamics of carrier life.

You were asking about on board flight controllers, have a look at this video of the X47B's first carrier launch:

[nomedia="http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=3Q4deCcKuVA"]X-47B First Aircraft Carrier Launch - YouTube[/nomedia]


Starting at around the 10 sec mark, there are two guys (white helmets and dark green clothing) with some sort of control pads strapped to their arms with a cable attached to other gear attached to a belt around their waist and there also appears to be a small antennae sticking up at the back and also what looks like microphone covering their mouths too, (they stand out from the rest of the deck crew).

Every now and then you see them looking at the control pads and operating them, what these guys are doing I wouldn't have a clue but they appear to be part of the process of getting the X47B on to the cat.

These guys are probably not flight controllers once the aircraft is in the air, but it appears they are there in an aircraft deck handler role.


Getting back to the video of the first landing, pretty dammed amazing stuff to watch, the X47B looked like it was on rails as it came down the centre of the flight deck with aircraft parked either side too.

Sort of makes landing an unmanned aircraft on a nice long flat land based runway almost look like child's play!!


In a couple of my favourite books by Stephen Coonts, 'Flight of the Intruder' and also 'The Intruders', Coonts, being an ex A6 Intruder Pilot in real life, gives a pretty realistic account of how demanding it is landing a jet at night, bad weather, pitching rolling deck, etc, sort of makes you feel you are right there in the cockpit.

Which got me thinking, I wonder what the limits are going to be for the X47B in extreme conditions?

How sensitive and reactive are the 'machine' sensors to be able to take it all in and make the fine adjustments needed to keep everything lined up without shooting too high or low, etc, I wonder how automated the landing process is on a moving deck?

 

[CB90]

How sensitive and reactive are the 'machine' sensors to be able to take it all in and make the fine adjustments needed to keep everything lined up without shooting too high or low, etc, I wonder how automated the landing process is on a moving deck?

4-6ft wave height near Eastern Maryland today. Not even close to bad, but not exactly smooth either.
My guess, they're going to design X-47 recovery limits to be pretty close to existing strike fighter NATOPS limits.

 

[John Newman]

Just came across another article on the X47B on the defensenews website:

X-47B Successfully Lands on Carrier | Defense News | defensenews.com

It shows a landing from another angle, this time from on board the carrier.

Also there was a problem too, after the second landing and take off there was to be a third landing, but this had to be aborted, see the paragraph below:

“On the third approach to Bush, the X-47B aircraft self-detected a navigation computer anomaly that required the air vehicle to transit to the assigned shore based divert landing site, Wallops Island Air Field,” Cmdr. Ryan Perry, a Navy spokesman at the Pentagon, said in an e-mail Wednesday evening. “X-47B navigated to and landed without incident.”


Obviously in these early days of testing a cautious approach is no doubt in place, you would assume that in the future, a 'son of' X47B that is operational will have multiple redundant systems to cover such a problem as the one mentioned regarding the navigation computer.

If there wasn't redundant systems, one day way out there in the deep blue, there probably aren't too many shore bases to divert to in the event of a similar problem and the only solution would be to drop it in the drink and pick up the pieces!

 

[colay]

More landmark events coming in 2013 will be USS America (LHA-6) being turned over to the Navy and the launching of the Gerald R. Ford (CVN-78).