Need help with some abbrevations

[STURM]

Does anyone know what these abbrevations stand for? Thank you.

105 mm HE M1 ''PH''

90mm High Explosive Anti-Tank-''TP-T''

90 mm High Explosive Squash Head - ''T''

90mm High Explosive M1 ''PH''

60mm High Explosive ''LAP 1''

40 mm L70 ''TP-T''

40 mm L70 ''HEI-T'' DM 31A2

76 mm L62 ''TP-T''

12.7 mm 4 ''APIHC''

12.7 mm ''MP''

 

[Bonza]

Might PH be phosphorous? Although I've mostly seen that marked as WP, and I don't know that it'd be marked on an HE round like that though... I think HEI-T would be high explosive incendiary-tracer. API might be armour-piercing incendiary, don't know about the HC part.

Just guesses on my part, I'm not well versed enough to know but I'm sure Kato or someone will know.

 

[Blas de Lezo]

TP-T : target practice Tracer
Apihc: armor piercing incendiary hard core
Mp multipurpose

 

[Abraham Gubler]

Everything that has –T means the round has a tracer element for visual tracking through its flight.

These are pretty straight forward:

TP-T: Target Practice – Tracer
HEI-T: High Explosive Incendiary - Tracer

I’m not sure what 105mm M1 HE PH means. Perhaps a typo and its meant to mean 105mm M1 HE PD which means a shell fuzed with Point Detonating (PD) which is a very common term.

LAP is a common term in ammunition production and means load assemble pack and involves taking all the manufactured bits that go into ammo and putting them all together into a useable form.

The 12.7mm MP is the Raufoss Mk 211 MP which is also known as High Explosive Incendiary/Armour Piercing Ammunition (HEIAP). APHIC stands for Armour Piercing, Incendiary, Hard Core which is basically the same as the HEIAP but without the explosive element between the armour piercing hard core and the incendiary.

 

[STURM]

I’m not sure what 105mm M1 HE PH means. Perhaps a typo and its meant to mean 105mm M1 HE PD which means a shell fuzed with Point Detonating (PD) which is a very common term.

I cut and pasted it verbatim from the Wiki entry of the Malaysian firm that produces it. Perhaps it is indeed a typo or maybe just a designation adopted by the firm.

LAP is a common term in ammunition production and means load assemble pack and involves taking all the manufactured bits that go into ammo and putting them all together into a useable form.

You've done a very good job explaining what 'LAP' means, so apologies for the question - basically when any factory produces shell/ammo from various bits and bobs, the whole process is called 'load assemble pack'?

A bit off topic.

Are 7.62mm AP rounds standard issue in most armies?

Where there any major differences between the Enfield produced GPMG L7 and the FN produced MAG 58?

Would it be correct to assume that GPMGs in use by Australia and New Zealand were produced at Enfield? The reason I'm asking is because some countries bought the FN produced MAG 58 but used the 'GPMG' designation. And some of the countries that use the 'GPMG' designation use both Enfield and FN produced guns.

Would the U.S. M107 155mm round be compatible with 45-calibre 155mm guns?

Is any of the stuff listed below familiar to anyone here?

Cast Booster 250g TK 1 & 500g TK 2
Charge Demolition 1lb Scare
Charge Linear Cutting 180 G/M
One Shot Single Charge
Demolition Charge No.1 6 inch [BEEHIVE]
Charge Demolition [10lb, 25lb]
Charge Demolition [50lbs SMEO 50]

 

[Abraham Gubler]

I cut and pasted it verbatim from the Wiki entry of the Malaysian firm that produces it. Perhaps it is indeed a typo or maybe just a designation adopted by the firm.

105mm M1 ammo is most often provided unfused by the plant in two shells and two charge casings per wooden box. But there is a packaging method in which a single round with fuse and charge case is provided in a low weight tube. This is called “105mm M1 HE PD” and is useful packaging method for rapid deployment forces.

You've done a very good job explaining what 'LAP' means, so apologies for the question - basically when any factory produces shell/ammo from various bits and bobs, the whole process is called 'load assemble pack'?

LAP is the phase where a finished casing is filled with the appropriate powder then the finished projectile is fixed and the whole lot packaged as per need. Historically the three separate elements of ammunition (projectile, casing, powder) were all made in separate factories and then would be brought together for assembly and packaging.

Are 7.62mm AP rounds standard issue in most armies?

Depends on what you mean by standard issue. Most armies would have 7.62mm AP as a standard round and available to troops but most 7.62mm weapons would be loaded with basic FMJ ammo. 7.62mm AP would be issued for use against light armour.

Where there any major differences between the Enfield produced GPMG L7 and the FN produced MAG 58?

The British L7 is the Belgian MAG built in Imperial measurements. The original Belgian MAG is a metric gauge weapon.

Would it be correct to assume that GPMGs in use by Australia and New Zealand were produced at Enfield? The reason I'm asking is because some countries bought the FN produced MAG 58 but used the 'GPMG' designation. And some of the countries that use the 'GPMG' designation use both Enfield and FN produced guns.

Australia has both British L7s and Belgian MAGs. GPMG is a class of weapon not quite a designation. The M60 was called a GPMG as well.

Would the U.S. M107 155mm round be compatible with 45-calibre 155mm guns?

Yep.

Is any of the stuff listed below familiar to anyone here?

Cast Booster 250g TK 1 & 500g TK 2
Charge Demolition 1lb Scare
Charge Linear Cutting 180 G/M
One Shot Single Charge
Demolition Charge No.1 6 inch [BEEHIVE]
Charge Demolition [10lb, 25lb]
Charge Demolition [50lbs SMEO 50]

Sounds like engineer demolitions kit to me. I like the idea of a beehive demo charge but I’ve never heard of it before. I have one of those engineer types visiting on Queens Birthday and he might deign to explain what it all means.

 

[Focus-AS]

105mm M1 ammo is most often provided unfused by the plant in two shells and two charge casings per wooden box. But there is a packaging method in which a single round with fuse and charge case is provided in a low weight tube. This is called “105mm M1 HE PD” and is useful packaging method for rapid deployment forces.



LAP is the phase where a finished casing is filled with the appropriate powder then the finished projectile is fixed and the whole lot packaged as per need. Historically the three separate elements of ammunition (projectile, casing, powder) were all made in separate factories and then would be brought together for assembly and packaging.



Depends on what you mean by standard issue. Most armies would have 7.62mm AP as a standard round and available to troops but most 7.62mm weapons would be loaded with basic FMJ ammo. 7.62mm AP would be issued for use against light armour.



The British L7 is the Belgian MAG built in Imperial measurements. The original Belgian MAG is a metric gauge weapon.



Australia has both British L7s and Belgian MAGs. GPMG is a class of weapon not quite a designation. The M60 was called a GPMG as well.



Yep.



Sounds like engineer demolitions kit to me. I like the idea of a beehive demo charge but I’ve never heard of it before. I have one of those engineer types visiting on Queens Birthday and he might deign to explain what it all means.

Beehive demo charge is just a stand off shaped charge; I've seen them used to dispose of 2000 lb bombs although I imagine there is any number of uses.....

"Beehive" No.1 Shaped Charge | Demolition Charge | Nato Stock Number (NSN) 1375-99-962-3319 | Shaped Charge

 

[Cadredave]

Sounds like engineer demolitions kit to me. I like the idea of a beehive demo charge but I’ve never heard of it before. I have one of those engineer types visiting on Queens Birthday and he might deign to explain what it all means.

We use to use beehives all the time in Pioneers to show the new soldiers just what they could cut or punch through, my favourite was an improvised beehive made out of an wine bottle good days when budgets were great and pioneers were still around

CD

 

[Raven22]

Would it be correct to assume that GPMGs in use by Australia and New Zealand were produced at Enfield? The reason I'm asking is because some countries bought the FN produced MAG 58 but used the 'GPMG' designation. And some of the countries that use the 'GPMG' designation use both Enfield and FN produced guns.

Just to add to the confusion, in Australian service the Mag58 is known as a GSMG, or General Support Machine Gun.

 

[STURM]

The term 'GPMG would be used to describe guns like the L7/MAG 58, MG3, SS-77, M-60 and the PKM. And lighter guns or section support bipod operated guns like the Ameli, Minimi, SLR 'heavy barrel, SA-80 LSW, RPK and Ultimax are collectively known as 'light machine guns'. Is this correct?

Assuming the tripod mounted Vickers was still in use [the South Africans used theirs up till the early 1980's], would it be designated a 'heavy machine gun' or a 'GPMG'?

 

[Cadredave]

The term 'GPMG would be used to describe guns like the L7/MAG 58, MG3, SS-77, M-60 and the PKM. And lighter guns or section support tripod operated guns like the Ameli, Minimi, SLR 'heavy barrel, SA-80 LSW, RPK and Ultimax are collectively known as 'light machine guns'. Is this correct?

Assuming the tripod mounted Vickers was still in use [the South Africans used theirs up till the early 1980's], would it be designated a 'heavy machine gun' or a 'GPMG'?

NZ Army have reclassified the Mag 58/L7 in the light role to GPMG Lt, when mounted on the tripod in the SF as GPMG medium. As for the Vickers it was never a GPMG it was and will always be a pure SFMG (Sustained Fire MG).

As for the new Minimi 7.62mm it new name is LSW Lt go figure

 

[Bonza]

The term 'GPMG would be used to describe guns like the L7/MAG 58, MG3, SS-77, M-60 and the PKM. And lighter guns or section support tripod operated guns like the Ameli, Minimi, SLR 'heavy barrel, SA-80 LSW, RPK and Ultimax are collectively known as 'light machine guns'. Is this correct?

Assuming the tripod mounted Vickers was still in use [the South Africans used theirs up till the early 1980's], would it be designated a 'heavy machine gun' or a 'GPMG'?

I think the SLR heavy barrel, RPK and LSW stick out a bit there, simply because they're more similar to rifles than true machine guns (firing from a magazine as opposed to a belt, etc), but then the Bren was similar and was considered a light machine gun. I'm also not sure as to whether those four weapons were configured to have their barrels swapped out quickly either, a common feature of dedicated machine guns (something tells me the Bren did). I suppose the definition is more role based?

The USMC M27 rifle is an example of an emerging weapon of this type - it's being referred to as an "infantry automatic rifle", rather than a light machine gun, although the nature of how it is supposed to be used might dictate that, more so than the weapon's characteristics (as I mentioned above).

I might be barking up the wrong tree with some of that but I'm sure Abe or Raven would be able to give you better/more accurate details.

 

[STURM]

Bonza, the Bren did have a barrel that could be quickly changed.

It gets more confusing when one brings the WW2 MG-34 and MG-42 into the picture. Both were used as section support weapons and when mounted on tripods [like the Bren] were used for the sustained fire role. Were they 'light machine guns' or 'heavy machine guns' ?

 

[Raven22]

The term 'GPMG would be used to describe guns like the L7/MAG 58, MG3, SS-77, M-60 and the PKM. And lighter guns or section support bipod operated guns like the Ameli, Minimi, SLR 'heavy barrel, SA-80 LSW, RPK and Ultimax are collectively known as 'light machine guns'. Is this correct?

Assuming the tripod mounted Vickers was still in use [the South Africans used theirs up till the early 1980's], would it be designated a 'heavy machine gun' or a 'GPMG'?

Comparing terms like GPMG and LSW is a bit pointless, because they are used to describe different things by different countries and change over time.

However, its probably worth pointing out the the terms 'GPMG' and 'LSW' describe a specific role, and not necessarily a specific weapon system. Hence you could classify the same weapon as both a GPMG and an LSW depending on how it was used.

For example, using Australia as the example, the basic automatic weapon in the rifle section is called an LSW because that is the role. In the recent past that role has been fulfilled by 5.56mm Minimis, 7.62mm Maximis and Mag-58s. It would be appropriate to describe all three as LSWs when used in that role. It wouldn't matter if you gave the sections M-60s, SA-80 LSWs, IARs, RPKs, or any other weapon - all would be LSWs.

Using the Mag-58 as a further example, when used in the SFMG role it is issued with three spare barrels and a tripod. When used in the LSW role it is issued with just one spare barrel and no tripod. Same gun, different roles.

 

[STURM]

However, its probably worth pointing out the the terms 'GPMG' and 'LSW' describe a specific role, and not necessarily a specific weapon system. Hence you could classify the same weapon as both a GPMG and an LSW depending on how it was used.

Thanks for the explanation. I was confused about the various designations used.

Taking the WW2 MG42 as an example, when section operated it would be [using modern terms] an 'LSW' but when tripod mounted for the sustained fire role would be a 'heavy machine gun' or a 'GPMG'. The designation used depends entirely on the role.

In the recent past that role has been fulfilled by 5.56mm Minimis, 7.62mm Maximis and Mag-58s.

The MAG58 was a section support weapon in Australian service? I was under the impression that it was issued to the support companies of various infantry battalions and that when needed, were attached to sections.

 

[Abraham Gubler]

Thanks for the explanation. I was confused about the various designations used.

Well you’re not the first person to be confused by military designations.

Taking the WW2 MG42 as an example, when section operated it would be [using modern terms] an 'LSW' but when tripod mounted for the sustained fire role would be a 'heavy machine gun' or a 'GPMG'. The designation used depends entirely on the role.

No a GPMG is a machinegun (MG) that can be used as either a LSW or a sustained fire MG (SFMG). The first machineguns were all SFMGs but at that time were just called MGs. Then WWI came along and a new type of MG was developed that could be fired from the shoulder or more likely the bipod. These weapons at the time (like the Lewis MG) were called light machineguns (LMGs). Because of the LMG entering the armoury during the interwar years traditional MGs began to be called medium machineguns (MMG) though to confuse things the Germans called their MMGs heavy machineguns (or lMG and sMG in German). Post WWII heavy machinegun (HMG) began to be used exclusively for larger calibre 12.7mm and 14.5mm MGs. The Germans introduced the MG34 which was the first MG that could be configured as either a LMG or HMG. Post WWII the British called this type of weapon the GPMG and renamed the MMG as the SFMG.

The MAG58 was a section support weapon in Australian service? I was under the impression that it was issued to the support companies of various infantry battalions and that when needed, were attached to sections.

The MAG entered Australian Army service to replace worn out M60s in the Operational Deployment Force (ODF). At that time they were used as classic GPMGs issued to sections as LMGs or the Battalion’s MG Platoon as SFMGs. It was replaced in the LMG/LSW role by the Minimi but retained in the SFMG role. Recently in Afghanistan a number of sections have replaced the Minimi with the MAG and used them as traditional GPMGs. As an LMG for patrolling with the ability to stick it on a tripod and use it as an SFMG when needed.

MAG is actually French for Mitrailleuse d'Appui Général which literally means General Purpose Machinegun. MAG 58 is a unique Australian name. While the MAG was in service from 1958 its actual FN name (the company that designed it) is Model 60!

 

[Volkodav]

Well you’re not the first person to be confused by military designations.



No a GPMG is a machinegun (MG) that can be used as either a LSW or a sustained fire MG (SFMG). The first machineguns were all SFMGs but at that time were just called MGs. Then WWI came along and a new type of MG was developed that could be fired from the shoulder or more likely the bipod. These weapons at the time (like the Lewis MG) were called light machineguns (LMGs). Because of the LMG entering the armoury during the interwar years traditional MGs began to be called medium machineguns (MMG) though to confuse things the Germans called their MMGs heavy machineguns (or lMG and sMG in German). Post WWII heavy machinegun (HMG) began to be used exclusively for larger calibre 12.7mm and 14.5mm MGs. The Germans introduced the MG34 which was the first MG that could be configured as either a LMG or HMG. Post WWII the British called this type of weapon the GPMG and renamed the MMG as the SFMG.



The MAG entered Australian Army service to replace worn out M60s in the Operational Deployment Force (ODF). At that time they were used as classic GPMGs issued to sections as LMGs or the Battalion’s MG Platoon as SFMGs. It was replaced in the LMG/LSW role by the Minimi but retained in the SFMG role. Recently in Afghanistan a number of sections have replaced the Minimi with the MAG and used them as traditional GPMGs. As an LMG for patrolling with the ability to stick it on a tripod and use it as an SFMG when needed.

MAG is actually French for Mitrailleuse d'Appui Général which literally means General Purpose Machinegun. MAG 58 is a unique Australian name. While the MAG was in service from 1958 its actual FN name (the company that designed it) is Model 60!

At the very least 6 RAR and maybe other battalions reissued BRENs before the arrival of the MAG 58 in the late 80s or early 90s. They also fitted modified M-60 bipod legs to the MAG 58s when first issued to the sections to provide a better grip for patrolling. Never been a fan of the M-60, probably because they were shagged by the time I was using them although they were more reliable than the ARs.

 

[STURM]

Can anyone help ID the GMPG tripod shown in the pic below [on the far left]. PC Shogunn mentioned a year ago that it looks like an Argentine manufactured Ametralladora 60-20 but I find this unlikely as the tripod in the pic is Malaysian operated and Malaysia has never ordered anuthing from Argentina. It looks similar to the tripod in the centre pic, which is Israeli, bu there are some external differences - probably both are the FN 30 tripod but the Israeli one is a newer model. In the pic on the far right is another Malaysian GPMG - the markings, which can be clearly seen, indicate L7A2 [Enfield produced?]- but I can't figure out what the groove on the stock is for.

 

[Raven22]

. In the pic on the far right is another Malaysian GPMG - the markings, which can be clearly seen, indicate L7A2 [Enfield produced?]- but I can't figure out what the groove on the stock is for.

What groove are you talking about?

 

[STURM]

What groove are you talking about?

Sorry, groove is not the right word. I meant the circular object mounted on the top of the stock, in the pic on the far right. It could probably be to fit a sling - its not fitted on older GPMGs.