Marine Nationale (French Navy)
- Thread starter Spacearrow99
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Indeed, well using the numbers provided I can't see where exactly it would fit in, undoubtably more info will come out in due course.
The count is for early/mid 2018 or earlier. Smells like early retirement for the Georges Leygues' to me.
- 6 Aquitaine* + 2 Cassard + 2 Horizon + 5 Lafayette then probably for first rank frigates.
- 6 Floreal for surveillance frigates
- 9 d'Estienne d'Orves + 3 Flamant + Arago + Malin + Fulmar as patrols?
* build schedule for FREMM has that many planned to be commissioned by mid-2018 iirc.
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The French do seem to have a bewildering array of classes within classes, does seem a bit bizarre sometimes.
Sounds about right, with the rest of the FREMMs knocking out the La Fayette's as they come in then?
Sounds about right, with the rest of the FREMMs knocking out the La Fayette's as they come in then?
Not necessarily. Mer et Marine is speculating the number of FREMMs could be reduced subsequently, with one more FREMM and one FREDA possibly replacing the two Cassards, and the other three ships knocked off the build plan or sold otherwise.
Personally see that as unlikely though. My early suggestion would be that they rather - for the next plan - knock the Lafayettes down to second rank again, publicly claim they're reducing first & second rank frigates (-2/-1 respectively) as a savings effort and then use that to push through the full number of 18 BATISMAR to keep up hull numbers.
Personally see that as unlikely though. My early suggestion would be that they rather - for the next plan - knock the Lafayettes down to second rank again, publicly claim they're reducing first & second rank frigates (-2/-1 respectively) as a savings effort and then use that to push through the full number of 18 BATISMAR to keep up hull numbers.
Spacearrow99
Member
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- #466
Remember the Lafayette class does not have ASW and Sylver VLS, so they may recieve upgrades. The FREMM program may be cut to 8 units, but I'm fine with this scenario as along as the last two ASM FREMM also have the FREDA upgrades.
Spacearrow99
Member
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- #467
Over looking over french sources mostly from Meret Marine and some others. It looks like Lafayette class may be modernized but Meret Marine mentions 2020 as the starting period for upgrading the Lafayette class. They are scheduled for replacement from 2026 to 2031. All of the 11 FREMM/FREDA may still be built along with modernizing two Lafayette class frigates. The FREMM have much smaller crews then the Lafayette class and the Lafayette class will not have much service life after their proposed upgrades.
Launch timeframe of future naval procurement programs.
2014-2019 LPM
BRAVE
2020-2025 LPM
BATSIMAR
2025-2030-LPM
New SSBN class
2035-2040
New carrier program
Launch timeframe of future naval procurement programs.
2014-2019 LPM
BRAVE
2020-2025 LPM
BATSIMAR
2025-2030-LPM
New SSBN class
2035-2040
New carrier program
All of the 11 - when it used to be 17.
FluffyThoughts
Member
Two FREMMs are off to Greece (lend-lease). Eight FREMMs are all that are budgeted for.
Gabbie/Liger has a decent post on this subject....
Gabbie/Liger has a decent post on this subject....
dose that mean that a further order later because with the Horizons its only 10 where are the other 5 vessels comming from or will their be a further cut or the Lafayette keeping up hull numbers as first line rather than second line.
Also what happened to all the D'Estienne d'Orves-class and their replacements.
Shame about PA2 though but understandable the lastest modifications did look a bit of a mess had a CVA-01 vibe with the last ones with the big island and the untidy looking flight deck.
Spacearrow99
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- #471
Mer et Marine is mentioned the 2020-2025 LPM as the timeframe of the proposed Lafayette class upgrades. That has to be wrong because the FOST usually has 4 or 5 ASW frigates assigned to it at a time. That would only leave 2 or 3 ASW frigates for the rest of the French navy. We will have to wait for more details about 2014-2019 LPM.
The BASTIMAR program will replace the P400 and D'Estienne d'Orves classes.
FluffyThoughts
Member
You've answered your own question. As I understand it Sarko reclassified the Lafayettes as first-rate frigates. So it would appear that France will have two Horizon, five Lafayettes and - eventually - eight FREMM. I think the last two of that batch are still ear-marked as FREDA though.
With fifteen OPVs and 6 surveillance frigates they have duty-roles covered (unlike the RN). And they have a Gowind to come....
Forget everything we thought we worked out about the French Navy's frigates, we thought the White paper said 8 but apparently it's still 11 . . . .
French Minister of Defence confirms 11 FREMM Frigates and 6 Barracuda Submarines will be built
French Minister of Defence confirms 11 FREMM Frigates and 6 Barracuda Submarines will be built
That's really thrown a curveball with the numbers, as to it being "rumours" based on the White paper, I can't wait for them to explain exactly how it's going to work out. 11 FREMM + 2 Horizon + 2x what?
kev 99
Member
The only worry there though is that it only confirms construction of 11, there was lots of talk that some of those were for other navies, 1 for Morocco and 2 for Greece.
I don't really think this statement answers anything.
True, it would work out, 11 built - 1 (Morocco) - 2 (Greece) = 8 for France.
But it does seem a bit ballsy, putting out the idea that France won't be getting 8 when in all they probably will, just being creative with the wording.
But it does seem a bit ballsy, putting out the idea that France won't be getting 8 when in all they probably will, just being creative with the wording.
kev 99
Member
Don't know about that, he just looks like he's outright answered a different question to the one that everybody has been asking, classic politician's doublespeak.
Ah, I see.
Well, in that case it kinda makes it seem like a pointless statement. The reason why the number 8 was being thrown around was that was the number projected to be in French service after all, so it makes no sense why he'd go out and oppose that by saying 'Dont worry, there's still 11!' when that's not what people were talking about.
Blergh, anyway, still 8 for the MN then.
Well, in that case it kinda makes it seem like a pointless statement. The reason why the number 8 was being thrown around was that was the number projected to be in French service after all, so it makes no sense why he'd go out and oppose that by saying 'Dont worry, there's still 11!' when that's not what people were talking about.
Blergh, anyway, still 8 for the MN then.
kev 99
Member
To be honest there's a good chance that I'm being cynical, I just don't see that his statement answers the right question.
I suppose it depends who he's really talking to as well really, if the intended audience was shareholders and workers for DCN then that's okay.
Mme Patricia Adam in her capacity as defense committee chairman of the parliament originally did an [interview] with Ouest France on May 4th in which she stated:
Dans le modèle d'armée à l'horizon 2025, nous diminuons le nombre de frégates de premier rang de 18 à 15. Ce sont les Fremm qui vont être touchées. Il y en aura 8 au lieu de 11. Il y aura un ajustement de contrat avec DCNS.
That one's where the number 8 is coming from. And the accusation that building numbers would be lowered ("un ajustement de contrat"). Now remember that:
a) Ouest France is a regional paper for Bretagne and the two adjacent regions
b) That's where DCN and all other French military shipbuilding companies are located.
Hence why le ministre de defense Le Drian was asked by Ouest France in [this interview] on May 13th:
Enfin, « en termes industriels, les principaux bassins bretons seront confortés malgré les conditions économiques difficiles », assure le ministre de la Défense. Ce qui signifie que 11 frégates multimissions (Fremm) et 6 sous-marins nucléaires d’attaque de type Barracuda seront construits. « Ce qui n’est pas encore tranché, c’est le cadencement mais il sera calibré pour qu’il n’y ait aucune rupture de la chaîne de production et aucune rupture de capacités des bureaux d’étude ».
Note: "In industrial terms".
Dans le modèle d'armée à l'horizon 2025, nous diminuons le nombre de frégates de premier rang de 18 à 15. Ce sont les Fremm qui vont être touchées. Il y en aura 8 au lieu de 11. Il y aura un ajustement de contrat avec DCNS.
That one's where the number 8 is coming from. And the accusation that building numbers would be lowered ("un ajustement de contrat"). Now remember that:
a) Ouest France is a regional paper for Bretagne and the two adjacent regions
b) That's where DCN and all other French military shipbuilding companies are located.
Hence why le ministre de defense Le Drian was asked by Ouest France in [this interview] on May 13th:
Enfin, « en termes industriels, les principaux bassins bretons seront confortés malgré les conditions économiques difficiles », assure le ministre de la Défense. Ce qui signifie que 11 frégates multimissions (Fremm) et 6 sous-marins nucléaires d’attaque de type Barracuda seront construits. « Ce qui n’est pas encore tranché, c’est le cadencement mais il sera calibré pour qu’il n’y ait aucune rupture de la chaîne de production et aucune rupture de capacités des bureaux d’étude ».
Note: "In industrial terms".