Russian Air Force News & Discussion

[alexkvaskov]

Also, how wise is it for the VVS to invest in both the Su-35 and MiG-35?

Not very wise. There are already a multitude of multirole platforms in service and being inducted. It would be cheaper and easier to focus on several key platforms and procure them in large numbers.

It seems that it would make much more sense to keep the MiGs and drop the whole Su project while waiting for the T-50 to become operational with the MiGs being the cheaper of the two.

Other way round. The Su-35 might very well be upgraded with AESA post 2016 and what's the point of producing a jet of which 40 airframes will be inducted by 2020 instead of one of which 48 will be in service by 2016?

From previous posts, it appears that the current upgrade programs for the Su-27 family and the new Su-30 MKK2 appear to be more than enough to satisfy the heavy fighter needs until the T-50 comes along no?

IIRC no more Su-27 upgrades are planned, most likely due to funding issues.

I'm asking this as it appears that from some time now, the Russian ambitious programs are being more than they can chew. So, if they need to give MiG a handout and, the Sukhoi bureau is already busy with the T-50, Why not just ditch the Su-35s and use the MiGs instead? Wouldn't the released funds be a blessing to other important projects like the new AWACS and logistic projects...

Well this is funding games within the fighter fleet we're talking about, I think it would be hard to convince Sukhoi to give up funding to the other bureaus.

 

[Haavarla]

It is a moot point to debate the Su-35S vs Mig-35 production.

The Fact is that KnAAPO got the Su-35S contract from MoD sometime in 2007/8. And has invested huge fundings, invested in qualified mannpower and time on a new Su-35S production line which has only recently started on the serial Su-35S.

So to even think Russia and VVS is better of axing Su-35S, which b.t.w. is far more capable vs Mig-35 is a big no-no.

The 48 Su-35S on order will be doubled to 90 soon, just wait n see.

 

[Feanor]

Feanor, can you clarify on why will the MiG-35s not be fitted with the AESA antenna? Is it a cost issue or something else?

Yes. The Zhuk-M is currently in production, and is already in VVS service. It makes it much cheaper. The start up of the Zhuk-AE production depends on a sufficiently large starting order.

Also, how wise is it for the VVS to invest in both the Su-35 and MiG-35? It seems that it would make much more sense to keep the MiGs and drop the whole Su project while waiting for the T-50 to become operational with the MiGs being the cheaper of the two.

Having both borders on idiocy. However the MiG-35 should be dropped. It's not necessarily cheaper, given that production isn't even ready, it's far less capable, and it doesn't share commonality with current upgraded Flankers and the PAK-FA.

Having an AESA equipped fighter while waiting for the T-50, would probably give the VVS better bang for the buck than with the Su-35.
From previous posts, it appears that the current upgrade programs for the Su-27 family and the new Su-30 MKK2 appear to be more than enough to satisfy the heavy fighter needs until the T-50 comes along no?

Upgraded Su-27s are far less capable then the Su-35S. And the production line for the Su-35S is up and running, the factory is in good condition. It's a lot cheaper and simpler to keep it running, then to start a whole new production line for the MiG-35.

 

[nevidimka]

So I guess the PAK DA is gonna look something like that flying wing model they were testing in the wind tunnels. Looks great!

 

[Feanor]

T-50 bort 053 was spotted with external missile pylons under the wings.

http://i48.tinypic.com/wia11.jpg

There's also a great photo shoot of helo ops in East MD, involving the Ka-52 flying as command helos for teams of Mi-24s, and Mi-8AMTSh. This is the Chernigovka airbase. Given what we see here, it becomes obvious that Ka-52 are being operated together with the Mi-24, instead of phasing them out. This might be because numbers delivered are so small right now, or because they want to increase total numbers of helos in service. It might also be an indicator of the direction re-armament is taking. The Mi-24 won't be phased out by 2020 even if the GPV-2020 is completed. It means we can expect to see newer machines serving as tactical command assets for the next decade or so. This is not dissimilar to the way the Su-25SM served as command planes for Su-25 flights during the Georgian war.

ТихоокеанÑкий флот ВМФ РоÑÑии - "ÐЛЛИГÐТОРЫ", "ТЕРМИÐÐТОРЫ", и "КРОКОДИЛЫ" - вот такой зоопарк в Приморье..

 

[nevidimka]

A Couple of things..

Does Tu 160 has engine blockers? I was looking at the video of it and noticed that the Engine inlet was angled to reflect radar away from the plane, just as the Lerx that blends into the body which is straight, but wouldnt make that big a difference if the engine can be seen right through, those massive 4 engine blades..

ON PAK FA, i keep seeing the discussions on small things on it that is counter to stealth such as the IRST, air inlets at the engine side etc. I was wondering, couldnt sukhoi design the canopy abit longer that it will enclose the IRST within the cockpit glass , instead of sitting outside - in front of the cockpit? Remove the bubble like glass on the IRST and let the cockpit glass to be the enclosure for it, unless the bubble like shape has its functions. Those inlet at the side of the engine pods can sure be designed saw toothed?

 

[Feanor]

First news of GPV 2016-2025, another contract for 50 more Yak-130 is planned, bringing total numbers to 127 (-1 that crashed). Technically the current Su-34 contract exceeds the time frame of GPV-2020. But it was never explicitly mentioned with GPV-2025.

Lenta.ru:
 

 

[nevidimka]

I accidently bumped into this website on the cancelled F 23 project. Not sure it is common knowledge by now, but it shows some final concept design of the F 23 Black Widow if it came into service back then, with also Northrop's concept for a Navy fighter based on the Yf 23 platform which is modified into a canard delta stealth design, now that is 1st time i'm seeing that.

The thing that got me curios is this :
"Troughs
The jet exhaust troughs were lined with square-shaped Titanium Lamilloy metal tiles of 5x5 inch area, laid in a right-angled matrix on the floor of the trough, and on the sidewalls, aligned with the downward sloping top edge of the trough. Some of the tiles had a trapezoidal shape where the slope met the floor, and the extreme trailing edge tiles were shaped like parallelograms. The tiles worked on the principle of transpiration cooling, and shielded the carbon fibre structure below from exessive heat. The troughs were cooled with air bled from the engines, which flowed down via 3 pipes, one for either wall and one for the 'floor' of the trough; towards the rear inside the tail structure, to exit via a series of very small holes under the extreme rear of the underside of the troughs. The extreme trailing edge of the rear fuselage and jet troughs was blunt, or radiused. The overall design of the rear section was optimised to minimise IR signature from the rear lower quarter view. "

The PAK FA designers are probably working on similar air vent cooling of the nozzles. Perhaps that is why there are holes at the base of the vertical tails which sucks in air to redirect to the nozzles.


Northrop F-23A EMD Proposal. F-23 production variant. Northrop NATF-23.

 

[Feanor]

The Su-34 was used in combat again, recently, against terrorist bases in Dagestan and Ingushetiya, last year. The details are unknown, but the MoD comments that the results were "pretty good" and that "better results were unlikely given the conditions in the mountains". A source from South MD HQ said that the Su-34 offers guaranteed destruction of the most hardened targets, day and night in any weather. Overall this sounds like they were less then impressed. The second statement sounds like an official line on the subject.

bmpd -

Also, results on the exploitation of the An-140 and An-148 by civilian operators were published. Out of the 4 An-140s in use by the Yakutia airlines, two have been pulled from regular flights potentially due to problems with spares.

bmpd -

This does not bode well for the An-140 in MoD use. Although if production is continued, Yakutia may resume use of the two planes currently in storage.

Also some other news, a special testing stand for onboard equipment of the PAK-FA was finished recently, which will allow a major reduction in total number of test flights. And the state trials for the Il-76MD-90A (Il-476). The state trials program for it requires 22 flights.

EDIT: First Su-34 deliveries this year will come in May, possibly a party of 6 (out of 14 due this year). They're in final assembly right now.

http://www.vz.ru/news/2013/3/18/624783.html

 

[alexkvaskov]

Does anyone know what the pods under this Su-27 are?
http://i.imgur.com/xRotBbP.jpg

 

[mAIOR]

Does anyone know what the pods under this Su-27 are?
http://i.imgur.com/xRotBbP.jpg

Rocket launchers it appears.

 

[koxinga]

Rocket launchers it appears.

B-13L launchers for S-13 rockets

ÐÐР С-13 | Вооружение РоÑÑии и других Ñтран Мира

 

[Feanor]

Some more updates, UAC bought rights to the An-140T and An-140S variants. This means that the An-140T project is going ahead. It's not clear whether it will be "the" light transport for the VVS but given the political nature of procurement decisions, it will definitely get some orders.

Technically the An-140T isn't even a completed aircraft, but a development. So UAC will have to finish it and get it certified before production can start. It will also be able to modify and upgrade aircraft independently of Antonov.

Lenta.ru:

This also bodes well for OKR Syemschik, which was developing a replacement for An-24/26 based aerial observation planes used under the Open Skies agreement.

Also the first two Mi-28N were just handed over to West MD. This is surprising because an airbase in West MD was supposed to receive a squadron of them last year. Apparently that got delayed.

Ð’ Ð*оÑтове-на-Дону предÑтавители ЗВО приÑтупили к приему первых двух вертолетов Ми-28Ð*—*ОÐ*УЖИЕ Ð*ОССИИ Информационное агентÑтво

 

[wsb05]

Some more updates, UAC bo rights to the An-140T and An-140S variants. This means that the An-140T project is going ahead. It's not clear whether it will be "the" light transport for the VVS but given the political nature of procurement decisions, it will definitely get some orders.

Technically the An-140T isn't even a completed aircraft, but a development. So UAC will have to finish it and get it certified before production can start. It will also be able to modify and upgrade aircraft independently of Antonov.

Lenta.ru:

This also bodes well for OKR Syemschik, which was developing a replacement for An-24/26 based aerial observation planes used under the Open Skies agreement.

Also the first two Mi-28N were just handed over to West MD. This is surprising because an airbase in West MD was supposed to receive a squadron of them last year. Apparently that got delayed.

Ð’ Ð*оÑтове-на-Дону предÑтавители ЗВО приÑтупили к приему первых двух вертолетов Ми-28Ð*—*ОÐ*УЖИ• Ð*ОССИИ, Информационное агентÑтво

Are they equipped with the top mounted radar?

 

[Feanor]

No. The top-mounted radar will only appear in the Mi-28NM variant. As it is the only Russian attack helo with a radar seems to be the Ka-52. By the way, 12 of them are now based at Krasnodar. This is probably the Korenovsk airbase.

http://sdelanounas.ru/blogs/31020/

Also it seems PAK-FA acceptance has been pushed back a year, to late 2015 early 2016. Expected, and unavoidable.

Lenta.ru:

 

[nevidimka]

btw, what is the rcs of a su 34? and does the SU 34 have any radar blockers ?

Will there be upgrades forthcoming with new AL41 engines or increasing its payload, as part of its development curve?

 

[Feanor]

btw, what is the rcs of a su 34? and does the SU 34 have any radar blockers ?

I don't know, but I suspect it's very large.

Will there be upgrades forthcoming with new AL41 engines or increasing its payload, as part of its development curve?

It's likely to happen eventually, but I don't remember if there are plans currently. There were some plans for upgraded AL-31s.

By the way reconstruction of airfields is continuing on a relatively massive scale. It's both helo and plane airbases. A lot of them are joint civilian-military facilities, and in many cases the reconstruction and expansion will allow more active use of the airfield by civilian aircraft as well as military.

Also apparently the Be-200 contract is moving ahead. As many as 3 aircraft could get handed over this year.

 

[alexkvaskov]

Regarding the recent news about the Su-34 insurgent strike, the bomb that they used, is it known if it was laser or satellite guided or just a dumb bomb?

 

[Feanor]

Regarding the recent news about the Su-34 insurgent strike, the bomb that they used, is it known if it was laser or satellite guided or just a dumb bomb?

I don't think it was publicly revealed.

Meanwhile a fire destroyed a Tu-95MS beyond repair. This aircraft had just returned from an overhaul.

bmpd -

 

[alexkvaskov]

I don't think it was publicly revealed.

According to Izvestia's "source" it was a PGM; other sources claimed the warhead was an FAE. I guess we'll never know for certain.

Meanwhile a fire destroyed a Tu-95MS beyond repair. This aircraft had just returned from an overhaul.

bmpd -

I sure hope it had no nukes on board.