Royal Australian Navy Discussions and Updates

[webmaster]

Locking thread, pending clean up operation with some of the comments.

Folks, lets respect each other, stick to the basics and keep discussions as technical as possible. There is no reason for two nations to go to war with each just because two individuals can't seem to find agreement. Post your arguments, opinions, rebuttals, along with your sources and move on.

Thank you for understanding!!!

 

[hairyman]

ADMk2, I had the same idea, that is for the Corvettes to be a separate class to the OPV"s. My biggest problem was in trying to come to a number of them for the RAN. Perhaps 6 would be enough?

 

[Abraham Gubler]

I like the idea of using SEA 5000 to turn SEA 1180 into a larger warfighting ship. One option could be to split SEA 5000 in half and acquire another batch of AWDs. The other half can be used to beef up SEA 1180. Maybe build 24 common hulls to a larger size (BMT Venator class) and put a frigate level combat system on half.

So the RAN would end up with 6-8 AEGIS AWDs, 12-16 sea control corvettes and 12-16 multi mission corvettes. The later can carry modules for MCM, MSO and survey as per need. The sea control corvettes would have CEA-FAR, 9LV, ESSM and ASW with towed array and Seahawk.

The RAN could then form two battle groups each of 2-3 AWDs and 4-6 sea control corvettes. Which is a lot better than two groups of a single AWD and three SEA 5000 NGC.

 

[peterAustralia]

Here is a sketch of what a relatively small patrol boat (though much larger than the Armidale class) with a helicopter pad might look like

[ame="http://www.flickr.com/photos/59706343@N05/8199451378/in/photostream/"]esmerelda_4 | Flickr - Photo Sharing![/ame]

 

[ADMk2]

I like the idea of using SEA 5000 to turn SEA 1180 into a larger warfighting ship. One option could be to split SEA 5000 in half and acquire another batch of AWDs. The other half can be used to beef up SEA 1180. Maybe build 24 common hulls to a larger size (BMT Venator class) and put a frigate level combat system on half.

So the RAN would end up with 6-8 AEGIS AWDs, 12-16 sea control corvettes and 12-16 multi mission corvettes. The later can carry modules for MCM, MSO and survey as per need. The sea control corvettes would have CEA-FAR, 9LV, ESSM and ASW with towed array and Seahawk.

The RAN could then form two battle groups each of 2-3 AWDs and 4-6 sea control corvettes. Which is a lot better than two groups of a single AWD and three SEA 5000 NGC.

That sounds pretty fine to me as well. Numbers-wise it's about the same as now (3x AWD, 8x Future Frigate, 20x OCV) but the capability benefits would be massive...

As long as the Sea Control Corvettes could do the basic ANZAC Class roles that are done today (some anti-surface, some ASW and some air defence) "alone" on deployment within a larger coalition then that sounds like a very viable plan.

One that would have great long term benefits for our local industry too. By the time all the Sea Control and Multi-Mission Corvettes plus the news subs were built, it'd be time to replace the AWD's and continue to roll on...

 

[Volkodav]

An interesting speech from Warren King at the Submarine Institute of Australia

Warren King: Submarine Mythbuster

I am currious if and how this will be reported in the general media, my guess is he will be written off as someone with a vested interest.

 

[Volkodav]

That sounds pretty fine to me as well. Numbers-wise it's about the same as now (3x AWD, 8x Future Frigate, 20x OCV) but the capability benefits would be massive...

As long as the Sea Control Corvettes could do the basic ANZAC Class roles that are done today (some anti-surface, some ASW and some air defence) "alone" on deployment within a larger coalition then that sounds like a very viable plan.

One that would have great long term benefits for our local industry too. By the time all the Sea Control and Multi-Mission Corvettes plus the news subs were built, it'd be time to replace the AWD's and continue to roll on...

Abe and AD for PM and DEFMIN, you can duke it out as to who gets which job.

On a serious note what you are suggestion would be smart and affordable but is unlikely to happen as we are probably due to buy some votes in another state.

Assuming commonsense rather than pork barrelling wins the day the way to go would be an indigenously designed Corvette using evolved ANZAC ASMD systems for the Sea Control type to leading to the design of an indigenous ADW replacement down the track. The multi-mission type could make do with provision for Phalanx and RAM (fitted with the Griffin as well as RAM).

 

[ADMk2]

Abe and AD for PM and DEFMIN, you can duke it out as to who gets which job.

On a serious note what you are suggestion would be smart and affordable but is unlikely to happen as we are probably due to buy some votes in another state.

Assuming commonsense rather than pork barrelling wins the day the way to go would be an indigenously designed Corvette using evolved ANZAC ASMD systems for the Sea Control type to leading to the design of an indigenous ADW replacement down the track. The multi-mission type could make do with provision for Phalanx and RAM (fitted with the Griffin as well as RAM).

I'll take Defmin for a decade and then G-G into retirement thanks...

 

[ASSAIL]

An interesting speech from Warren King at the Submarine Institute of Australia

Warren King: Submarine Mythbuster

I am currious if and how this will be reported in the general media, my guess is he will be written off as someone with a vested interest.

I'm more concerned about how his comments will be received by a govt that has shown no stomach for defence.

The comments section after his speech represents the grossly ignorant appreciation of the real accomplishments of Collins (thanks to our journos) and this is what probably resonates with the political opportunism of both major parties.

If the stark reality of building a (large) number of submarines could be sugar coated by emphasising the extended production timeline and smaller sequential batches, the public/pollies would find it easier to swallow.
In this sense, the grandiose announcement in the 2009 WP did us no favours

 

[Sea Toby]

Here is a sketch of what a relatively small patrol boat (though much larger than the Armidale class) with a helicopter pad might look like

esmerelda_4 | Flickr - Photo Sharing!

From my past experience with small ships operating helicopters, a 62 meter ship is too small to operate Seahawk sized helicopters. Maybe okay for smaller helicopters like Dolphins and Squirrels, but not Seahawks. It is my opinion to operate Seahawks one needs at least a 100 meter ship, preferably longer.

The Irish tried to operate Dolphins on a 70 meter ship and gave up the ghost in the rough and tumble North Atlantic and Irish Sea.

 

[hairyman]

Some time ago, Austal had a design for an Ocean PatrolBoat/ Corvette on their website. It was either 2'100 tons or 2'700 tons, and was a trimarine. I think the LCL ships being built for the US were based on it. It was not enclosed like the us ships, and was a ferocious looking beast, and supposedly very fast. If it was adopted for our Corvettes, they would certainly be a conversation starter.

 

[StingrayOZ]

I see Australia is having an International Fleet review starting 3th of October next year.
I have a list of some Australian ships attending, anyone know of the internationals?

 

[John Newman]

I see Australia is having an International Fleet review starting 3th of October next year.
I have a list of some Australian ships attending, anyone know of the internationals?

Below is a link from the Navy web site:

IFR 2013 - Participating Warships | Royal Australian Navy

It shows the RAN vessels and the list of countries intending to to participate but not the details of individual ships as yet.

There is one exception to the international ships, SPS Cantabria is confirmed.

Mmmm, I wonder if by then she may be called HMAS .........? Interesting thought!

And as for the RAN vessels, a year from now is a long long time, wonder how many of them will be 'broken' or possibly decommissioned by then too?

Be nice to see Canberra in the review, but it would probably be too much of a disruption to her fitting out to bring up and then return to Melbourne.

 

[Abraham Gubler]

Abe and AD for PM and DEFMIN, you can duke it out as to who gets which job.

It was JustSome's idea so make him PM. I'll be Minister for Sport and have box tickets to every major international thanks.

 

[icelord]

I see Australia is having an International Fleet review starting 3th of October next year.
I have a list of some Australian ships attending, anyone know of the internationals?

May have to do what happened to Tobruk for the Fleet Review in 2009, and have them towed out into harbour after removing all the scaffolding...unsure whether Sydney has enough tugs, although Ocean shield can be counted as one if we can get her off the wharf

 

[ADMk2]

I see Australia is having an International Fleet review starting 3th of October next year.
I have a list of some Australian ships attending, anyone know of the internationals?

If it's held in Sydney Harbour, than it's guaranteed more than half the RAN fleet will be there...

 

[StevoJH]

I thought the last of the LCH's were planned to go by then?

 

[hauritz]

An interesting bit of speculation here.

The claim is that the favoured option for the Collins replacement would be to design our own ... presumably from scratch.

To cover any capability gap it is being further speculated that the current fleet could have its life extended by 8 to 10 years.

Submarines Andrew Davies Jason Clare Vice Admiral Griggs Collins

 

[gf0012-aust]

An interesting bit of speculation here.

The claim is that the favoured option for the Collins replacement would be to design our own ... presumably from scratch.

To cover any capability gap it is being further speculated that the current fleet could have its life extended by 8 to 10 years.

Submarines Andrew Davies Jason Clare Vice Admiral Griggs Collins

ASPI don't exactly qualify as the SME's on the subject matter ... they've said some patently ridiculous stuff in the past

so unless the govt has decided to revisit the maint and extension program in a major way then all boats need to have sail time and minimise docking - as it can cost more in the end to dock and maintain longterm

quite frankly I'd be waiting to see what comes out of internal group hugs than believe whats coming out into the public domain..

sometimes the two are diametrically opposed...

 

[ASSAIL]

Whatever the outcome I would assume that the the boats have not been worked as hard as say, the O boats because of the ongoing sustainment and manning issues.

If this is indeed the case, the hulls should have plenty of life spare to extend their service?