Question on Bundeswehr personal gear

[STURM]

I have had 3 Bundeswehr personal gear items in my collection since the 1990's and I was wondering if all 3 are still on issue and whether they were even widely issued in the first place.

1. A foldable foam mat with a rubberised ground sheet.

2. Goretax gaiters with drawstring at the bottom.

3. Green belt with with no buckle but has velcro fasteners.

Are there any former Bundeswehr members here who were issued with these items? Thank you.

 

[Waylander]

I have had 3 Bundeswehr personal gear items in my collection since the 1990's and I was wondering if all 3 are still on issue and whether they were even widely issued in the first place.

1. A foldable foam mat with a rubberised ground sheet.

2. Goretax gaiters with drawstring at the bottom.

3. Green belt with with no buckle but has velcro fasteners.

Are there any former Bundeswehr members here who were issued with these items? Thank you.

1. Standard for troops using the older and smaller Jägerrucksack (a backpack) where it doubles as the back plate to soften up the stress of the back.

2. I don't think any gaiters were officially supplied to normal Bundeswehr soldiers. It's stuff bought privately by soldiers.

3. A belt with velcro fasteners and no buckle? Never seen one but that doesn't mean that it wasn't in the system for some time.

 

[kato]

the older and smaller Jägerrucksack (a backpack)

Which despite the name was standard issue up until about ten years ago.

2. I don't think any gaiters were officially supplied to normal Bundeswehr soldiers.

Gebirgsjäger had them. If they're original issue they should be in NATO olive Goretex.

 

[DavidDCM]

What sleeping mat are the units which use other rucksacks issued?

I only know the foldable mentioned by STURM, was issued with it myself, as tankers only get the small backpack. After finishing service I purchased a couple of them and use them to this day when camping, fishing and what not. They are so much more practical than rolled up mats.

 

[STURM]

1. Standard for troops using the older and smaller Jägerrucksack (a backpack) where it doubles as the back plate to soften up the stress of the back.

Did this rucksack have any form padding fitted next to the frame?

Also, during basic training are new recruits instructed to place the heavy stuff at the very top so that the weight rasts on the shoulders and not the low back?

Gebirgsjäger had them. If they're original issue they should be in NATO olive Goretex.

The ones I have are in NATO olive green. The place I bought them advertised them as standard issue. I tried using them once in the jungle, they were just too hot to wear here and not very practical .

I also have an unused German military ID tag, similar to the WW2 ones in that you can break it in two but much better quality. Not sure how many other armies issue similar ID tags but I must say, it was a very good idea to make tags that could be broken in two - one to bring with you and one to leave on the deceased! Are these tags also issued to the Luftwaffe and Bundesmarine?

 

[kato]

What sleeping mat are the units which use other rucksacks issued?

The "Mehrzweckunterlage" (multipurpose underlay) is issued for everyone.

Official full default issue list, current equipment [here]. Difference compared to the 90s is mostly in the numbers of equipment issued (e.g. today two laundry bags instead of one, only two blouses instead of four); some items are issued in new versions (half tent in Flecktarn instead of olive, new rucksack, new knife, new NBC mask); only real additional equipment is the Flecktarn scarf. And that they cut the items you could already opt out of ten years ago (underwear, sports socks).

they were just too hot to wear here

Wear them when you find some snow in the jungle, that's what they're for

 

[Waylander]

The ID tag is utter sh**. It's mich too big and has sharp edges. Hitting the ground with the tag in the wrong position will bring tears of pain into ones eyes.

Didn't know about the gaiters for Gebirgsjäger. Hadn't much contact with them during my time apart from driving school in Munster where they gave me a ride in their Hägglund.

-------------

Heavy should be packed close to the back with the light stuff further away. Most of the weight should actually rest on your hips and not on your shoulders.

 

[STURM]

Wear them when you find some snow in the jungle, that's what they're for

Gaiters are occasionally worn by foreign troops here on jungle training exercises, in wet areas. Not sure how they manage though.

The ID tag is utter sh**. It's mich too big and has sharp edges. Hitting the ground with the tag in the wrong position will bring tears of pain into ones eyes.

Is this the same kind of tag you were issued with?

 

[kato]

Is this the same kind of tag you were issued with?

Current version has DEU instead of GE pre-stenciled for nationality / field 2 (since ca 2008). Format of the tag has been the same since 1956.

 

[Marc 1]

I also have an unused German military ID tag, similar to the WW2 ones in that you can break it in two but much better quality. Not sure how many other armies issue similar ID tags but I must say, it was a very good idea to make tags that could be broken in two - one to bring with you and one to leave on the deceased! Are these tags also issued to the Luftwaffe and Bundesmarine?

The 'dogtags' we were issued (Australian Army) were to be worn in pairs. One shaped in an octagonal shape was to remain with the body IIRC (ideally wedged between the upper and lower front teeth so it would remain in place even after a body had decayed. The other circular tag to be returned through the system to notify the higher ups of the death. The two tags used to rattle and clink about on the issued chain, so the chain was usually substituted for para or hutchie cord when out bush and the tags taped together. At least that's what was on issue in the late 80's.

 

[old faithful]

Having para cord or hootchie cord tied around your neck is not a good idea. para c Many of my mates in ord has breaking strain of 3200 lbs. we used to tape our dog tags together to stop the rattle. A few of my mates in 3 were missing their front teeth, from "playing", always told thàt the hex shape went between the teeth, or if that wasn't possible, up the Khyber.....

Best bit of German kit I used was the equivalent of our E Tool, called a Klapshparten (forgive my spelling) truly a useful bit of gear, still have it and still use it when I'm camping.

 

[STURM]

Current version has DEU instead of GE pre-stenciled for nationality / field 2 (since ca 2008). Format of the tag has been the same since 1956.

You mean the 'GE' was the initials for Germany? Any particticular reason as to why it was in English? Also, what are the numbers on the tags for?

The 'dogtags' we were issued (Australian Army) were to be worn in pairs.

Marc,

Something uniquely Australian I think was is the 'belt comforter' that is designed to be strapped to the belt to provide comfort when a belt order is worn. I got one in the 1990s, it was in 'jelly bean' colours. Were you ever issued with it?

With regards to the ID tags, I think most, if not all the militaries the world over issue tags in pairs - with the key exception of the Germans. I started collecting WW2 German ID tags in the early 1990s and I was very surprised to find a modern issue Bundeswehr version for sale a few years later that was identical in design.

 

[kato]

You mean the 'GE' was the initials for Germany? Any particticular reason as to why it was in English?

Due to NATO and WEU lingua franca.

Was switched to DEU due to switch to standard ISO country code (and because GE is Georgia in that since 1992).

Also, what are the numbers on the tags for?

Each number denotes a field on the tag:

(Front)
1. (empty)
2. nationality
3. religion, for last rites, burial type etc (*)
4. Personal serial number (**)

(Back)
5. blood type
6. rhesus type
7. year of last tetanus shot
8. (empty)
9. (empty)
10. (empty)

(*) - E or EV for protestant, K or RK for catholic, O for orthodox, JD for jewish, ISL for muslim, empty for anything else or atheist
(**) - consists of birth date, first letter of family name, coded number for draft office and an error check digit

Fields 1 and 8-10 are placeholders for possible additional information.

 

[Marc 1]

Marc,

Something uniquely Australian I think was is the 'belt comforter' that is designed to be strapped to the belt to provide comfort when a belt order is worn. I got one in the 1990s, it was in 'jelly bean' colours. Were you ever issued with it?

Not issued when I was in, but could be bought from one of the many companies that were making kit far more suitable than the rubbish we were issued. I found webbing to be comfortable enough when 'worn-in', so never felt the need to buy one. I spent my own dollars on an Alice pack frame, a large and medium alice packs, and the 2 litre flexible water bottles from the PX at Fort Ord in 1988, then added a decent pocket knife, leatherman etc.

Periodically one of the head shed at brigade HQ, or Land Comd or where ever would issue an order that non issued equipment could not be used (argument was that if it failed out field it could not be replaced like for like) - then we'd have to strip all our own gear and go with the issued cra... errr equipment. You could still get away with using the Alice frame with the issued pack provided you had not modified the pack - so that if the frame failed you could ditch it and still use the pack.

I liked the Alice packs - although quickly learned that the large Alice was a trap - because you had room in your pack, you would end up with half a truckload of additional stores, signalling panels, radio batteries, spare bulldozers etc. Mostly just used the medium.

 

[Marc 1]

Best bit of German kit I used was the equivalent of our E Tool, called a Klapshparten (forgive my spelling) truly a useful bit of gear, still have it and still use it when I'm camping.

We should compose a list of the best field kit. It'd have to include a Swandry - the kiwi's swore by 'em and I've heard Waiuru can make a Canberra winter look like Cairns. Goretex Bivy bag was a good investment, as was one of the Malaysian hamocks.

 

[STURM]

Not issued when I was in, but could be bought from one of the many companies that were making kit far more suitable than the rubbish we were issued.

You mean the 'belt-comforter' wasn't issue kit but was commercially made?

I liked the Alice packs - although quickly learned that the large Alice was a trap - because you had room in your pack, you would end up with half a truckload of additional stores, signalling panels, radio batteries, spare bulldozers etc. Mostly just used the medium.

From the late 1970's to the late 1990's, the issue bergen here was a local copy of the ALICE [medium] in brushstroke camo, it was useful to have as it didn't tend to get stuck in branches and leaves, which was the case with the PLCE which is longer than the ALICE. For the depolyment to Bosnia in the early 1990's a few hundred PLCEs were bought from the U.K and are still used.

In the 90's there was a shop in Melbourne selling new and surplus kit, Platypus, you ever heard of it?

Were gaiters commonly worn during exercises?

 

[Marc 1]

You mean the 'belt-comforter' wasn't issue kit but was commercially made?

Yes, sorry, should have been clearer. That sort of stuff was available through the RAInf corps shop and other places.

From the late 1970's to the late 1990's, the issue bergen here was a local copy of the ALICE [medium] in brushstroke camo, it was useful to have as it didn't tend to get stuck in branches and leaves, which was the case with the PLCE which is longer than the ALICE. For the depolyment to Bosnia in the early 1990's a few hundred PLCEs were bought from the U.K and are still used.

The only issue with the Alice was to get to your sleeping bag or to pack it away, you had to half unpack the damn thing. This was the only area where the issued pack was better - it was divided into 2 sections the bottom is where you would stuff your farter (short for fart sack - sleeping bag) - it made packing up simple - particularly in jungle terrain when you would move just on first light. Some people solved that by getting a zip sewn onto the bottom of their Alice pack with a partition in the main body of the pack.

In the 90's there was a shop in Melbourne selling new and surplus kit, Platypus, you ever heard of it?

Yes, walked past it a month or so ago. These shop fronts weren't around 20 years ago - it was mainly mail order.

Were gaiters commonly worn during exercises?

No, just mid calf length leather boots known as GP boots (basically unchanged since 1965. Trousers were bloused over the top of the boots using elastics to keep the creepy crawlies out.

I was issued gaiters in school cadets though - awful pre WWII small two buckle items - pretty useless. Edit like these: http://www.ebay.com.au/itm/KOREA-WA...800595684?pt=AU_Militaria&hash=item4d054082e4 The old man gave me his Korean war vintage gaiters that were much larger with a strap running under the instep unlike the issued rubbish. edit Like these: http://cas.awm.gov.au/item/REL31609

I notice you described the original Austcam pattern as 'baked bean shaped' - we used to refer to the pattern as bunny rabbit suits - the basic shape looked remarkably like the silhouette of a rabbits head and ears.

 

[STURM]

I notice you described the original Austcam pattern as 'baked bean shaped' - we used to refer to the pattern as bunny rabbit suits- the basic shape looked remarkably like the silhouette of a rabbits head and ears.

Hello Marc,

I described it as the 'jelly bean' pattern is because this is the term commonly used by uniform collectors to describe Auscam, as the shapes resemble jelly beans . I assumed that this term was also used by the troops who wore them. Its very interesting though, that you guys called it bunny rabbit suits. Most camo patterns have had unofficial terms applied by their users or by international collectors. The previous Malaysian camo [a copy of the Rhodesian pattern], for example, was referred to as the 'brushstroke' and the East German pattern was the 'raindrop'.

 

[lopez]

The belt comforters have been standard issue for some time now. Though wearing a belt rig isn't exactly considered very "Gucci" but they will probably make a resurgence after afghan dies down as they are very practical out in the bush.

I have Heard auscam referred to as jelly bean and bunny rabbits among numerous other nicknames.


Also regarding the issue with packing sleeping bags the new land 125 have the partition and zip (internal divider is removable) and the frame.

 

[old faithful]

We should compose a list of the best field kit. It'd have to include a Swandry - the kiwi's swore by 'em and I've heard Waiuru can make a Canberra winter look like Cairns. Goretex Bivy bag was a good investment, as was one of the Malaysian hamocks.

Good idea mate, malay hammock was a winner, I still have one of those to.
Sleeping bag in ALICE was not problem, 3RAR was issued LGE ALICE late 1980,s, and we used to just stuff the farfer in the top, or use a compress bag, and chuck it in.
Gortex biv bag was great, but very hot in the top end. useful for water crossings.
Vuie tuie gets a mention. Norways skivvy were good under shirt in the cold. Swedish magazine pouches were very very good, simple and silent to open and close, but hard to get hold of! anyone else have or use these, please post a pic of the stud,hole clip, very simple, and the best design I have seen yet.