Indeed - the later blocks of Sea Dart had almost double the range because they flew using an autopilot to the target, using a much more efficient flight profile. Speaking of which we get into pursuit vs intercept profiles which can make a drastic difference between ranges and Pk's.
Marine Nationale (French Navy)
- Thread starter Spacearrow99
- Start date
Spacearrow99
Member
- Thread Starter Thread Starter
- #422
The real issue is France is developing a new powerful Radar Sea Fire 500 for the Fremm. If future potential customers of Fremm-ER want a quadpacked VL MICA then It will happen.
VL MICA will be used by
Malaysia (new Light Frigates designed by DCNS)
Indonesia ( New Sigma now being built)
Morocco (Sigmas)
Oman (BAE corvettes)
VL MICA will be used by
Malaysia (new Light Frigates designed by DCNS)
Indonesia ( New Sigma now being built)
Morocco (Sigmas)
Oman (BAE corvettes)
Fixed that for you.... If enough future ... customers ... want a quadpacked VL MICA to justify the development cost, or one of them is prepared to pay for it, then It will happen....
No-one's quad packed any however - the missile is a one for one fit into Sylver and Mk41 cells. No folding fins or anything else that works for quad pack.Didn't Greece FREMM included Mica VL on the helicopter hangar?
Spacearrow99
Member
- Thread Starter Thread Starter
- #426
Fixed that for you.
You know the new radar they're developing will cost much more then redesigning V L MICA. And the radar came out of the blue, so their could be plans for quadpacking the MICA.
Yes, the CGI rendering shows what looks like 3x8 launchers.No-one's quad packed any however - the missile is a one for one fit into Sylver and Mk41 cells. No folding fins or anything else that works for quad pack.
If they make a version with folding fins, maybe a RAM-like launcher would be more interesting.
I would agree it makes sense for the MN to adopt CAMM rather than develop MICA or even Crotale once CAMM is available. Although they may just stick with Aster 15/30.CAMM already quad packs and has about twice the range allegedly - and it's an MBDA product, available in a cold launch config (ideal for small ships) Cost permitting, I'd have thought that CAMM might be more attractive.
If France did develop and fit MICA once CAMM was available I think it would be fair for the UK to claim the French are not being good Europeans....something they are only to quick to accuse the UK of. It would clearly make limited sense for MBDA to progress both missiles when they are in such a similar class (which they are despite posts).
Spacearrow99
Member
- Thread Starter Thread Starter
- #430
CAMM has twice the range of VL Crotale, but not VL MICA.CAMM already quad packs and has about twice the range allegedly - and it's an MBDA product, available in a cold launch config (ideal for small ships) Cost permitting, I'd have thought that CAMM might be more attractive.
Ah, my mistake - looks like they're closer in range than I'd understood. Makes sense as they're both effectively designed around air to air missiles of similar sizes.CAMM has twice the range of VL Crotale, but not VL MICA.
An AESA radar for FREMM is out of the blue? Weellll . . . given how many other ships in that class are getting new radars, & Thales already makes & sells shipboard AESA radars, it's not exactly a shock.You know the new radar they're developing will cost much more then redesigning V L MICA. And the radar came out of the blue, so their could be plans for quadpacking the MICA.
The radar isn't linked to Mica. It'd work with a number of missiles, e.g. CAMM. Spending on the radar doesn't justify spending on VL Mica.
Yup, only ship in that class not getting an AESA in the 2020's is Type 26 :cries:An AESA radar for FREMM is out of the blue? Weellll . . . given how many other ships in that class are getting new radars, & Thales already makes & sells shipboard AESA radars, it's not exactly a shock.
The radar isn't linked to Mica. It'd work with a number of missiles, e.g. CAMM. Spending on the radar doesn't justify spending on VL Mica.
MICA has thrust vectoring though - might help with end game agility ?
For Malaysia, it's not confirmed yet, MBDA is certainly pushing MICA but the RMNs preferred choice is believed to be ESSM. The RMN had originally selected ESSM for the cancelled Lekius Batch 2s a few years ago. The main problem for Raytheon is that MICA is cheaper [having a shorter range and not having the ability to deal with sea-skimmers] and the French have a stronger political pull. Am I correct in asuming that MICA does not have an anti-missile capability unlike Seawolf, which is a much older design?VL MICA will be used by
Malaysia (new Light Frigates designed by DCNS)
Indonesia ( New Sigma now being built)
Interesting about MICA going on the next batch of SIGMAs. The current batch only have Tetral launchers.
Spacearrow99
Member
- Thread Starter Thread Starter
- #435
Well, you are mistaken since France, was looking at a cheaper solution, then developing a new radar for just 2 FREDA. They developed the new radar to get more customers for the FREMM.An AESA radar for FREMM is out of the blue? Weellll . . . given how many other ships in that class are getting new radars, & Thales already makes & sells shipboard AESA radars, it's not exactly a shock.
The radar isn't linked to Mica. It'd work with a number of missiles, e.g. CAMM. Spending on the radar doesn't justify spending on VL Mica.
It means the French are willing to spend to get customers for FREMM. France developed a news radar because potential FREMM customers wanted one. The same thing may happen with V L MICA. CAMM isn't a french system, so you want be seeing it on FREMM.
Spacearrow99
Member
- Thread Starter Thread Starter
- #436
Look at hte end of the video. I have never heard that V L MICA has a problem with sea skimmers.For Malaysia, it's not confirmed yet, MBDA is certainly pushing MICA but the RMNs preferred choice is believed to be ESSM. The RMN had originally selected ESSM for the cancelled Lekius Batch 2s a few years ago. The main problem for Raytheon is that MICA is cheaper [having a shorter range and not having the ability to deal with sea-skimmers] and the French have a stronger political pull. Am I correct in asuming that MICA does not have an anti-missile capability unlike Seawolf, which is a much older design?
Interesting about MICA going on the next batch of SIGMAs. The current batch only have Tetral launchers.
[nomedia="http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=XLYvty_alQ4"]MBDA VL MICA MISSILE - YouTube[/nomedia]
1. Err - that isn't a shock. Someone finally woke up to the fact that there are customers who'd prefer an AESA to Heracles. How is that a surprise?Well, you are mistaken since France, was looking at a cheaper solution, then developing a new radar for just 2 FREDA. They developed the new radar to get more customers for the FREMM.
It means the French are willing to spend to get customers for FREMM. France developed a news radar because potential FREMM customers wanted one. The same thing may happen with V L MICA. CAMM isn't a french system, so you want be seeing it on FREMM.
2. Fine. Spend to gain. See above. No shock. France has a long tradition of developing weapons with exports in mind. I wish I could say the same about the UK.
3. Yeah, possible - but it hasn't happened yet. Perhaps the potential market for a quad-packed VL MICA isn't seen as big enough.
4. Ah. Right. So it has to be all French, or France won't play. What happened to paying attention to what potential customers want?
StobieWan: isn't part of the point of Type 26 supposed to be modularity? If the customer wants TRS-4D, or the active derivative of EMPAR, they can have it.
Spacearrow99
Member
- Thread Starter Thread Starter
- #438
The French Def Min, has just confirmed the buy of 13 MRTT starting next year. Yes, its a huge shock, since the procurement budget is already really stretched now. And AAW radars are giant procurement expenditures.1. Err - that isn't a shock. Someone finally woke up to the fact that there are customers who'd prefer an AESA to Heracles. How is that a surprise?
2. Fine. Spend to gain. See above. No shock. France has a long tradition of developing weapons with exports in mind. I wish I could say the same about the UK.
3. Yeah, possible - but it hasn't happened yet. Perhaps the potential market for a quad-packed VL MICA isn't seen as big enough.
4. Ah. Right. So it has to be all French, or France won't play. What happened to paying attention to what potential customers want?
StobieWan: isn't part of the point of Type 26 supposed to be modularity? If the customer wants TRS-4D, or the active derivative of EMPAR, they can have it.
AAW radars aren't cheap - but FREMM already comes with Heracles, which is a capable radar, & not cheap. BTW, AESA doesn't mean hugely expensive now. Peru has bought AESA radars from Italy to upgrade old frigates, Germany is putting AESA radars on the F125, which isn't an AAW-dedicated ship (only RAM!), & the Netherlands has put Thales AESA radars on the Holland class OPVs.
Spacearrow99
Member
- Thread Starter Thread Starter
- #440
Yeah, Germany can afford to put a phased array AESA on F125. Again the procurement budget is really stretched, now it will be stretched even more since Hollande will cost defense spending. A new phased array radar which may've BMD capabilities will not come cheap.AAW radars aren't cheap - but FREMM already comes with Heracles, which is a capable radar, & not cheap. BTW, AESA doesn't mean hugely expensive now. Peru has bought AESA radars from Italy to upgrade old frigates, Germany is putting AESA radars on the F125, which isn't an AAW-dedicated ship (only RAM!), & the Netherlands has put Thales AESA radars on the Holland class OPVs.