Royal Australian Navy Discussions and Updates

[John Newman]

Navy had to forego capability to take Choules

yin and yang

GF,

I'm interested to see you expand on what capability the Navy had to forgo.

Is it from the retirement of the 6 LCH over the next 18 mths?

I would have thought that a lot of the $'s needed to acquire and operate Choules would have been saved from the early (forced) retirement of the 2 LPA's and the underspend by defence over the last few budgets too?

 

[swerve]

Manpower shouldn't have been an issue. Smaller crew than either of the two LPAs.

 

[hauritz]

I am surprised the LCH replacement doesn't get a higher priority.

I am imagining that the role of these ships will now be taken over by the remainder of the Amphib fleet ... or at least those missions that require over the shore capability. I suspect that having a 27000 ton LPD or even a 16,000 ton Landing Ship will be massive overkill for most of these missions.

 

[Anixtu]

I thought we bought her outright.

From the RFA end it was described as a sale to Australia. Leasing was an option during the disposals process, but Australia's bid was to buy, not lease, and was announced as such at the time of disposal. The RFA certainly aren't expecting her back.

 

[gf0012-aust]

From the RFA end it was described as a sale to Australia. Leasing was an option during the disposals process, but Australia's bid was to buy, not lease, and was announced as such at the time of disposal. The RFA certainly aren't expecting her back.

and the RFA would be more than happy with that.

the expression re "gift horses" always needs to be accompanied by evaluation teams sleeping with one eye open

 

[RobWilliams]

From the RFA end it was described as a sale to Australia. Leasing was an option during the disposals process, but Australia's bid was to buy, not lease, and was announced as such at the time of disposal. The RFA certainly aren't expecting her back.

Imagine that, the MOD putting out that it actually was leased + we'll be getting her back!

I've always thought it was a sale too, caused a stir at the time IIRC.

 

[gf0012-aust]

From the RFA end it was described as a sale to Australia. Leasing was an option during the disposals process, but Australia's bid was to buy, not lease, and was announced as such at the time of disposal. The RFA certainly aren't expecting her back.

and the RFA would be more than happy with that.

the expression re "gift horses" always needs to be accompanied by evaluation teams sleeping with one eye open

 

[Anixtu]

and the RFA would be more than happy with that.

the expression re "gift horses" always needs to be accompanied by evaluation teams sleeping with one eye open

She is very much missed from the RFA, along with the 150 or so crew made redundant as a result of her disposal.

I don't think anyone was hoodwinked as to her condition at the time of sale. If the transformer failure was something that would have occurred at that time regardless of who was operating her, the RFA would have been as surprised as the RAN has been. Many other engineering defects and limitations of the Bays are well known, and knowing the engineers who were present at the time of the disposal process - during the RAN and Teekay visits - they would not have held back their true thoughts and opinions, if asked.

 

[gf0012-aust]

She is very much missed from the RFA, along with the 150 or so crew made redundant as a result of her disposal.

I don't think anyone was hoodwinked as to her condition at the time of sale. If the transformer failure was something that would have occurred at that time regardless of who was operating her, the RFA would have been as surprised as the RAN has been. Many other engineering defects and limitations of the Bays are well known, and knowing the engineers who were present at the time of the disposal process - during the RAN and Teekay visits - they would not have held back their true thoughts and opinions, if asked.

I'm not suggesting that we were hoodwinked, I was raising the subcutaneous issue that the company used to do some of the the assessment was not one that Navy chose, or that quite a few in industry thought was suitable.

 

[ASSAIL]

I'm not suggesting that we were hoodwinked, I was raising the subcutaneous issue that the company used to do some of the the assessment was not one that Navy chose, or that quite a few in industry thought was suitable.

No conflict of interest of course, neither is there any nepotism surrounding our defence dear leader

And of course it was not repeated with the "Skandi Bergen" purchase

I'll believe anything.:dodgy

 

[StevoJH]

No conflict of interest of course, neither is there any nepotism surrounding our defence dear leader

And of course it was not repeated with the "Skandi Bergen" purchase

I'll believe anything.:dodgy

Where are K & M docked these days? Didn't see them from the train going over the bridge the other day when I was down there.

Or have they been sent for disposal?

 

[Trackmaster]

Where are K & M docked these days? Didn't see them from the train going over the bridge the other day when I was down there.

Or have they been sent for disposal?

Maybe they could be the return cargo for the Blue Marlin.

There would be a razor blade manufacturer somewhere that would welcome them.

 

[John Newman]

Maybe they could be the return cargo for the Blue Marlin.

There would be a razor blade manufacturer somewhere that would welcome them.

I've got a far better idea for Blue Marlin, keep her here till she needs to go to Spain to pick up Adelaide.

Strap Choules to her so she can be transported to where and when she might be needed.

And better still, with Blue Marlin being semi-submersible, Choules could still use her well dock.

Problem Solved! Who needs a new transformer!!

 

[t68]

Found an Interesting article in Navy magazine. Since they have given up on having F35B placed on board the Canberra’s, they are exploring a dedicated NGS vessel along the line of the old HMAS Vampire with her 3 dual 4.5inch guns a mini arsenal ship if you like. Wonder if they will call for 4 Zumwalts ships in place of a light carrier and F35B.

Actually if they can convince someone, it’s not a bad idea would personally rather a light carrier which would be more multi role, would interesting to see if an F100 hull could be used and use the current hanger space for more weapons but keep the flight deck for VERTREP.

 

[hauritz]

And better still, with Blue Marlin being semi-submersible

Semi - submersible! Could be a fix for the Collins Class subs as well.

As for other tasks for the new LPDs ... I don't see us getting F-35Bs at any point but I wonder if they could be used for UCAVs.

 

[John Newman]

Where are K & M docked these days? Didn't see them from the train going over the bridge the other day when I was down there.

Or have they been sent for disposal?

You were wondering where the LPA's had gone to.

I was driving over the Anzac Bridge this afternoon and noticed that both LPA's are tied up side by side at Walsh Bay.

Interestingly they are tied up in exactly the same spot as Adelaide was before she was scuttled as a dive wreck off Avoca Beach.

Couple of photos are attached:

 

[aussienscale]

Collins replacement

Finally having a chance to catch up on some things, and came across these articles

Navy eyeing off new Japanese submarines

Submarines no longer all at sea

The article reports that the JMSDF Navy Chief visited Australia in Jun, after the Japanese ban to export Defence related tech was lifted in Dec, to discuss access to Soryu technology, the class is probably the only current MOTS that actually suits our requirements, and with Australia, Japan and the US having very close and simular relationships from a Defence perspective, seems to be a very good fit

The article also report that RADM Moffitt and Dr Zelinsky, Chief Defence Scientist traveled to Japan in July to have a closer look at the Soryu Class. With both countries operating subs in the same environment with very simular requirements, it will be an interesting race to first pass approval due IIRC next year ?

This is certainly a thorn in the side of the Euro's hoping for a shot, especially since the Soryu is in the water, the closest thing size wise is the 216 which is still and evolved wax paper drawing

To my thinking we would either be looking at an evolved Collins II design or the Soryu, or to be more specific the Soryu follow on class. Would be intersted in peoples thoughts on this as we are getting closer ?

It seems that one of the bigger issues to be taken into account for the decision is the need for the sub to be able to take the Mk 48 (Aus/US full version, not the export version) and the obvious intended use of the US combat system

Cheers

 

[gf0012-aust]

Finally having a chance to catch up on some things, and came across these articles

Navy eyeing off new Japanese submarines

Submarines no longer all at sea

Pretty sure we've covered thjs when it was first announced - but, as most would know, I've been an enthusiastic proponent of working with the Japanese on the next sub - probably first showed my cards around 2006 after coming back from Hawai'i and seeing some of what the USN views were ((contracting at that stage of my life)

engines and sig mgt opportunities are the strong suits at first cut

one of the few fleet conventionals that can mix it up with and hunt a nuke and come out in front

 

[aussienscale]

Pretty sure we've covered thjs when it was first announced - but, as most would know, I've been an enthusiastic proponent of working with the Japanese on the next sub - probably first showed my cards around 2006 after coming back from Hawai'i and seeing some of what the USN views were ((contracting at that stage of my life)

engines and sig mgt opportunities are the strong suits at first cut

one of the few fleet conventionals that can mix it up with and hunt a nuke and come out in front

So do you see us with Australianised Soryu or Mk II Collins intergrating the Japanese propulsion systems ? I would see either option fitting well

Cheers

 

[gf0012-aust]

So do you see us with Australianised Soryu or Mk II Collins intergrating the Japanese propulsion systems ? I would see either option fitting well

Cheers

Considering that the Govt of the day has not been quick to date - and given that the Opposition continue to treat subs like a political football - to say that I am cynical and depressed about even getting 8 across the line should say much

by the time we get through all the political posturing and watch both sides help screw the project, the best bet would be to buy Japanese and then fit it out with some of the preferred US sub-systems (no pun intended)