New Zealand Army

[RegR]

Yes, I understand that, hence my question as to what specifically. I am also very familiar with the equipment of both countries and I disagree with him, as we have essentially identical equipment in the areas he listed.

Yes understood you are well within your right to disagree as we all will have different preferences even within our own countries.

If you compared a M1A1 with NZLAV, I would prefer the M1A1 therefore NZLAV is second, now if you compared NZLAV to ASLAV I personally would prefer NZLAV due to it being the newer upgraded model, therefore ASLAV would be second in my eyes, ASLAV to M113, M113 to bushy and so on.

Its not about saying we are better equipped overall but from experience we do not have exactly the same kit, it may well have the same end use but is different nonetheless so at the end of the day some will find certain equipment 'better', its all personal preference. For example Aus has different steyrs, webbing, LAVs, uniforms, accents etc etc, all does the same job and is generally employed the same however I know which I prefer, sometimes its yours sometimes its ours, again is down to preference(and funds).

With Aus having a big budget they can obviously get alot of equipment that is better then ours and then again due to our small size we can afford to give our guys some better gear in certain areas, its all relative.

 

[RegR]

Well the Kiwis have better service dress than Oz. Better quality, better looking and cheaper too. Though when it comes to warfighting equipment it’s ridiculous to say NZ is better equipped. NZLAV may be slightly better than the ASLAV but that’s thanks to the 10 years longer it took you guys to buy some. And even then the NZ in NZLAV is just a marketing ploy. We actually speced unique kit and built the ASLAV (well about half of it) in Australia. NZLAVs are Canadian LAV IIIs down to the paint job that were shipped from Ontario to NZ. Only thing different is the black Kiwi painted on the sides in place of the Maple Leaf. But you have no tanks, no APCs, no PMVs, no 155mm smart round artillery, no attack helos, no BMS. You probably even have less tough Polynesian soldiers than Australia now.

Wow now we are really attempting a pissing contest, I do know one thing, our guys are alot more humble thats for sure........

 

[Raven22]

Yes understood you are well within your right to disagree as we all will have different preferences even within our own countries.

If you compared a M1A1 with NZLAV, I would prefer the M1A1 therefore NZLAV is second, now if you compared NZLAV to ASLAV I personally would prefer NZLAV due to it being the newer upgraded model, therefore ASLAV would be second in my eyes, ASLAV to M113, M113 to bushy and so on.

Its not about saying we are better equipped overall but from experience we do not have exactly the same kit, it may well have the same end use but is different nonetheless so at the end of the day some will find certain equipment 'better', its all personal preference. For example Aus has different steyrs, webbing, LAVs, uniforms, accents etc etc, all does the same job and is generally employed the same however I know which I prefer, sometimes its yours sometimes its ours, again is down to preference(and funds).

With Aus having a big budget they can obviously get alot of equipment that is better then ours and then again due to our small size we can afford to give our guys some better gear in certain areas, its all relative.

Whatever. All I was responding to was this:

I don’t agree Reece that we have inadequate gear with the Aus Army, pound for pound we are equipped with the same or in some cases better equipment than they are (RNZIR/RNZAC), Our Infantry is better equipped with NVE, Spt weapons, PPE the Armoured boys have a vehicle that is second only to the M1A1 in RAAC service very few ASLAV have the same turret as us yet our LAV is also bigger and quieter with more potential for growth

I'm just interested to know exactly how Kiwi infantry is better equipped with NFE support weapons and PPE. Because unless the Kiwis have kit that I don't know about, that statement is bollocks. Pound for pound the Kiwis are not better equipped.

 

[SouthernSky]

With Aus having a big budget they can obviously get alot of equipment that is better then ours and then again due to our small size we can afford to give our guys some better gear in certain areas, its all relative.

It's absolutely imperative that this mentality continues if NZ armed services are expected to keep punching above their weight. You wouldn't want it any other way.

This had all the hallmarks of a trans Tasman willy waving contest awhile back. Lets remember that some of our best work has been done shoulder to shoulder.

 

[Abraham Gubler]

Wow now we are really attempting a pissing contest, I do know one thing, our guys are alot more humble thats for sure........

Demonstrate where in my post I made a statement that could be considered an antonym of humble? Otherwise withdraw your passive aggressive whinge.

I expressed a number of informed opinions about the qualitative edge in different areas between Aus and NZ. If they come out a bit in favour of one side then that's a problem with the world not my supposed 'arrogant posturing'.

 

[MrConservative]

Will people pull their heads in please. Some of the comments are getting out of order. By people who really should know better. I am not happy that this descending into vitriol.

 

[RegR]

Whatever. All I was responding to was this:



I'm just interested to know exactly how Kiwi infantry is better equipped with NFE support weapons and PPE. Because unless the Kiwis have kit that I don't know about, that statement is bollocks. Pound for pound the Kiwis are not better equipped.

Again mate,you like your gear, I like ours, admittedly you have alot of gucci gear that we don't have but our gear is not exactly the same and I'm not gonna say yours is better just because you say so and its not nesscessarily big ticket items such as tanks (as that seems to be what is bugging you), but also all the little minor things. If it makes you feel better Australia has the best tanks in the world and your infantry has all the top gear, I will still stick with our gear however if thats ok with you and I think it is good. Also NFE?(you've stated twice thought it was honest mistake first time), NVE is night vision equipment.

 

[RegR]

Demonstrate where in my post I made a statement that could be considered an antonym of humble? Otherwise withdraw your passive aggressive whinge.

I expressed a number of informed opinions about the qualitative edge in different areas between Aus and NZ. If they come out a bit in favour of one side then that's a problem with the world not my supposed 'arrogant posturing'.

Are you serious?

Sorry mods just saw your statement

 

[Bonza]

If it makes you feel better Australia has the best tanks in the world and your infantry has all the top gear

That's not what he's saying at all, and it's dishonest to pretend he is.

Again guys, calm down. I shouldn't have to tell you after MrC has already requested the same thing, we're all grown ups here.

 

[Raven22]

Again mate,you like your gear, I like ours, admittedly you have alot of gucci gear that we don't have but our gear is not exactly the same and I'm not gonna say yours is better just because you say so and its not nesscessarily big ticket items such as tanks (as that seems to be what is bugging you), but also all the little minor things. If it makes you feel better Australia has the best tanks in the world and your infantry has all the top gear, I will still stick with our gear however if thats ok with you and I think it is good. Also NFE?(you've stated twice thought it was honest mistake first time), NVE is night vision equipment.

I really don't know what bugging you. I asked a question I want Cadredave to answer. I'm not interesting in a pissing contest with you. Again, what NFE, support weapons and PPE does the Kiwi infantry have that the Australian Army doesn't? Its a pretty straight forward question.

And you can call it NVE if you like, in my Army its called Night Fighting Equipment.

 

[recce.k1]

The ASLAV and NZLAV has exactly the same netcentric capability which, outside of Afghanistan, isn't much.

Thanks for the info, that the two variants have the same netcentric capabilities. The differences, as you point out, are other capabilities such as the camera and laser warning receiver (handly no doubt in some areas of the globe but presumably less so (or not likely) in places like Afghanistan where the threats are more IED & RPG etc, at the moment at least).

Anyway for NZDF it has been an almighty and rapid transition from the Vietnam era equipment only 10 or so years ago, to become more interoperable with NATO and ISAF systems. This can only bode well for greater, practical ANZAC cooperation, especially when the NZG supports the B Class vehicle replacements (as well as increased cooperation & training with US and other allied forces in the wider Asia-Pacific etc).

There's a lot further useful discussion to be had from CD's original post with the various issues raised there, which I'll leave for another time as its rather late here (and hopefully your original questions are better addressed in due course by CD or others in the know).

 

[gf0012-aust]

A clarification point - and a rough analogy

NFE is to UAS as NVE is to UAV

one focuses on the range of tools, the other focuses on a tool set/platform capability

 

[ssgt]

All nice and good.
More important is the question what is going on with the QAMR's?

 

[old faithful]

All nice and good.
More important is the question what is going on with the QAMR's?

WIKI lists. QAMR as a REGT with 3 Cav SQNS, and a SUPPORT SQN.
I don't know if its just vehicles and crew, or mounted infantry as well.
I hope that they will have their own infantry.

 

[ssgt]

There sure was a major change over the summer, with the orig. plan only with
A-Squadron.
Where will all the people come from to staff the unit?

 

[ngatimozart]

See General Dynamics Land Systems have come up with a concept for a tracked variant of the Stryker (LAV). They have based it upon the Stryker Double V hull and it is aimed at the US Army M113 replacement. AUSA 2012: GDLS introduces ‘Tracked Stryker’ An interesting concept.

 

[CJohn]

Here is a bit more information on the New Zealand Army's new Multi Terrain Camouflage Uniform (MCU pattern) to replace the current DPM and DDPM.

The MCU is a six coloured pixilated pattern of the Ghostex series from Canada's Hyperstealth Biotechnology Corp. in collaboration with ADS Inc. of the US.
The new MCU will be phased into service by mid year 2013, and will be worn by all branches of the Defence Force. New Zealand Army selects Hyperstealth/ADS Inc. Camouflage after extensive Field Trials

It is interesting to note Hyperstealth/ADS Inc. are finalists along with Crye Precision. (multicam) in trials to sellect the new combat camouflage pattern for the US Army.

 

[CJohn]

This is a first view of the NZ Defence Force's new MCU pattern combat uniform.
The graphics pattern on the uniform is not that clear but the cut is interesting.
Check it out here, on this page : http://blog.predatorbdu.com/2012/11/new-combat-uniforms-and-eberlestock.html

Key components of the MCU will feature both a flame retardant and non-FR selecton for the trouser and shirt to be worn as deemed appropriate.
The flame retardant Under Armour Shirt is a completely new item to the combat uniform.

Cheers.

 

[Gracie]

Hi All, this is my first post. Been reading for awhile. Some interesting discussions.
I was in Wellington yesterday and saw two armoured vechicles being driven north on a truck. They look like british warthogs from Singapore. Any ideas?
I am wondering if Singapore or the British are down for an exercise or could NZ be trialling these as part of a recon or amphibious vehicle?

 

[t68]

Hi All, this is my first post. Been reading for awhile. Some interesting discussions.
I was in Wellington yesterday and saw two armoured vechicles being driven north on a truck. They look like british warthogs from Singapore. Any ideas?
I am wondering if Singapore or the British are down for an exercise or could NZ be trialling these as part of a recon or amphibious vehicle?

If it was an EX more than likely the Singaporeans. If was for evaluation purposes interesting depend on what they have in mind since they sold the M113 for scrap they would be good in the logistics role a tracked variant of the bushmaster so to speak. But if they were looking for something to complement the NZLAV I would have thought that the Bionix Infantry Fighting Vehicle would have suited better.

Bionix Infantry Fighting Vehicle - Army Technology

Pity you didn’t get a photo at the time.