British Army Weapons

[Biggsydaboss]

I'm new to this site & I just wanted to get a feel of things. I thought I'd start by asking what peoples thoughts on the British armed forces weapons of choice. The L85 A2, L86 A2 (LSW), L96 A1 & so on. Also any thoughts to the SAS mainstay MP5, does anyone feel it's a bit dated for one of the most elite special forces around.
Edit; Thanks for the replies. Like I said just getting a handle on things on here, so as a newbie just wanted to ask a basic question.

 

[Marc 1]

Also any thoughts to the SAS mainstay MP5, does anyone feel it's a bit dated for one of the most elite special forces around

Biggsy, know nothing about the first weapons, but if your SAS is funded similarly to ours, cost just isn't a consideration. So if there was a better weapon, they would be using it I'd guess. Perhaps the reason why they have stuck with the weapon is that it is still the best blend of accuracy, handling, reliability out there despite its age. Just because it has been around a while doesn't mean it necessarily needs replacement.

MG3 for example is still used by many militaries - based on MG42 from before WWII - if it ain't broke why 'fix' it?

 

[RobWilliams]

I'm new to this site & I just wanted to get a feel of things. I thought I'd start by asking what peoples thoughts on the British armed forces weapons of choice. The L85 A2, L86 A2 (LSW), L96 A1 & so on. Also any thoughts to the SAS mainstay MP5, does anyone feel it's a bit dated for one of the most elite special forces around

After the revamp H&K gave the L85A1 (which I think was BAE owned during this period) then from what I hear it's become an excellent weapon as the L85A2. The latest incarnation with the rails, vertical grip and new optic (can't remember the name but it's not a SUSAT - has crosshairs) is particularly nice to handle and aim. When I went on Dragon in January there was a RM recuitment stand and you got to play with the weapons if you're wondering how I know.

L115A3 - VERY nice rifle, i've had the privilage to fire one of these rifles (AWSM) in .338 Lapua Magnum with a local rifle club @ 1000 yards and was by far the most comfortable rifle i've ever fired and especially accurate. Excellent weapon.

GPMG - From wherever i've seen people talk about it (mostly from Iraq/Afghanistan vets writing books), they bloody love the thing. Massive amount of firepower and can punch harder than any of their 5.56 weapons (obviously)

L85A2 image is from google but the AWSM one is one i've taken myself.

 

[winnyfield]

Also any thoughts to the SAS mainstay MP5, does anyone feel it's a bit dated for one of the most elite special forces around

Its pretty much all short barreled (~10") AR-15s nowadays.

Judging from pics, the main SAS cqb weapon of choice in Iraq was the C8 CQB (google it). It has also replaced the HK53s in RMP close protection service.

 

[Biggsydaboss]

Biggsy, know nothing about the first weapons, but if your SAS is funded similarly to ours, cost just isn't a consideration. So if there was a better weapon, they would be using it I'd guess. Perhaps the reason why they have stuck with the weapon is that it is still the best blend of accuracy, handling, reliability out there despite its age. Just because it has been around a while doesn't mean it necessarily needs replacement.

MG3 for example is still used by many militaries - based on MG42 from before WWII - if it ain't broke why 'fix' it?

Unfortunately with the British Armed Forces, from what the ex squadies I know have told me, cost very much always seems to be the issue.

 

[RobWilliams]

Unfortunately with the British Armed Forces, from what the ex squadies I know have told me, cost very much always seems to be the issue.

There's a very big difference between a regular squaddie and a member of the SAS/SBS in terms of funding and kit available.

Some sources have thrown out that there's about 2000ish members in Britains special forces + SF funding has been estimated to be £2bn, although the real figure is classified.

EDIT: Of course, those figures could be as useful as a chocolate teapot but i'd be prepared to be that the amount of funding per trooper is substantially higher than the same ratio applied for the regular soldier.

UK SF are regarded as one group which actually gained from SDSR 2010 as their funding was actually increased.

So i suspect that if a squaddie and a trooper both asked for top of the line kit, the trooper would get it long before the squaddie.

 

[StobieWan]

Cost is and always will be an issue but I think if you take a look at a British Infantry section as they're kitted for ops in Afghanistan compared to one in say, Gulf War 1, the difference in armour, comms and weapons is considerable.

Between the upgrades for the SA80A2 with the rail system, new sights, UGL, the DMR plus the GMPG reappearing in the section plus quite often a SAW, well, the firepower available to a British section is very heavy indeed.

 

[Marc 1]

Unfortunately with the British Armed Forces, from what the ex squadies I know have told me, cost very much always seems to be the issue.

Squaddies from non special forces units - hell yes, quite believeable they were finding it tough. Having been in the Australian Regular Army in the 80's and 90's we had severe cost restrictions. Track km on armoured vehicles were limited, and even training units were being issued live round allocations that were insufficient to train recruits according to the minimum types of shoots that were supposed to be fired.

For a year I was based at Ingleburn (a very old WW2 vintage camp in the South West of Sydney). The SAS came across from their base near Perth to practice their Counter Terrorism stuff (this is when we just had one TAG). They only stayed a week or so, in that time they bought half a dozen new industrial washing machines, new dryers, new kit for the kitchen etc to replace the stuff that was probably Korean war vintage. When they went they left it all behind for us happy people. They had endless buckets of cash for whatever they needed. Times were tough for the rest of the army, not for the Specials - as it should have been. I would have suspected the same was true in the UK.

 

[Biggsydaboss]

Squaddies from non special forces units - hell yes, quite believeable they were finding it tough. Having been in the Australian Regular Army in the 80's and 90's we had severe cost restrictions. Track km on armoured vehicles were limited, and even training units were being issued live round allocations that were insufficient to train recruits according to the minimum types of shoots that were supposed to be fired.

For a year I was based at Ingleburn (a very old WW2 vintage camp in the South West of Sydney). The SAS came across from their base near Perth to practice their Counter Terrorism stuff (this is when we just had one TAG). They only stayed a week or so, in that time they bought half a dozen new industrial washing machines, new dryers, new kit for the kitchen etc to replace the stuff that was probably Korean war vintage. When they went they left it all behind for us happy people. They had endless buckets of cash for whatever they needed. Times were tough for the rest of the army, not for the Specials - as it should have been. I would have suspected the same was true in the UK.

You're probably right. Just seems that as one of the better trained Armed Forces in the world (obviously our antipodian bretheren are equally as good), we seem to be seriously under equipped. I'll openly admit I've never served in the Armed Forces, had my chance but I was too much of a live wire, most of my family have. Growing up it's all I ever heard, was the griping about not being able to get the job done.

 

[Eoin6661]

I'm new to this site & I just wanted to get a feel of things. I thought I'd start by asking what peoples thoughts on the British armed forces weapons of choice. The L85 A2, L86 A2 (LSW), L96 A1 & so on. Also any thoughts to the SAS mainstay MP5, does anyone feel it's a bit dated for one of the most elite special forces around.
Edit; Thanks for the replies. Like I said just getting a handle on things on here, so as a newbie just wanted to ask a basic question.

First off UKSF I'm guessing would use what ever was needed to get their job specific done, so don't think they're limited to MP5s or anything else for that matter.

L96A1 is no longer in service, being replaced by the L115 series .338 Lapua Mag AWM.

The L85A2 is now one of the most reliable weapons in service anywhere. The L86A2 was the LSW then touted as a possible DMR. Although that now seems to be the para minimi and L129 respectively.