Well things did actually get worse for defence under Howard or more to the point McLachlan, Moore and Reith before the wake up call of Timor in 1999 followed by 9/11 in 2001 to make sure they were awake after dozing off again. Timor stopped the cuts and the war on Terror saw an increase in funding, prior to that they really didn't give a stuff about defence other than to blame everything on Beazley. That said has the previous government not embraced DOA the ADf would have been better placed to weather the Howard cuts
Royal Australian Navy Discussions and Updates
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We need both. The LHD's and the OCV. Infact the LHD I would imagine being very useful in this role as a mother-ship to unload refugees, transport, operate helos, medical etc.
With the OCV's we need em. With boat refugees being such a hot topic, Im surprised they haven't funded the eyeballs out of em. If only to save lives of refugees and not put our people in danger and the whole situation getting out of control.
We can't sustain with what we currently have. So they are going to have to get something, even if its not budgeted for it.
With the OCV's we need em. With boat refugees being such a hot topic, Im surprised they haven't funded the eyeballs out of em. If only to save lives of refugees and not put our people in danger and the whole situation getting out of control.
We can't sustain with what we currently have. So they are going to have to get something, even if its not budgeted for it.
I can’t wait to read about these boats sailing with MetalStorm weapons and taking over Antarctica to stop the Iranians blowing up the world… (Sea techno thriller discussion in RAAF thread.) Otherwise it looks like a very expensive way to get a 76mm gun to sea for a few day trips a year.
Just heard the greens bleating that we didn't have a boat on scene fast enough when the SIEV (that was not yet a SIEV as it was still within Indon waters) sank in the Sunda Straight. Apparently the RAN should be ready to rescue people anywhere anytime. Icelord, keep your ears open - if the greens ever get in power in their own right I expect you will be doing rescues in the Mediteranean too. And if you can't get there within 5 minutes from say DNB, you are to personally (along with your crewmates) to jump in the water and push the Armidale faster.
Cripes - what a bunch of muppets... Do they even understand where this boat went down?
Cripes - what a bunch of muppets... Do they even understand where this boat went down?
That is old news, it was floating around more than 6 months ago. its false. the image is a photoshoped image of an Armidale someone on another site even found the original photo.
Now you just being Silly!....There wouldnt be a Navy if the Greens were in Power!
They would contract out to those posers in Sea Shepherd though...Uncle Bob works for them now after all.
justsomeaussie
Member
You could put your foot down some of the cracks in the ANZACs.
It's not about the age of the boat, it's about how you maintain it and what it was designed for. You can't take a brand new sedan 4wding and expect it to turn out all right
The irony that Sea Shepard actually operate an offshore patrol vessel with helicopter and ice operation capacity.Now you just being Silly!....There wouldnt be a Navy if the Greens were in Power!
They would contract out to those posers in Sea Shepherd though...Uncle Bob works for them now after all.
Just goes to show how durable the RN Island class en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Island_class_patrol_vessel(Hall Russell & Co ) fishery protection vessels were. Of the 8 built from 1973, only one has been scrapped. Six are still in service with the Bangladesh Navy and Steve Irwin, still going strong, flogging along in the Southern Ocean.
We could have done a lot worse (and did) than buying something similar to these.
There was no compromise to their utility as they made no pretence to being a "warship".
Well the Island class was just a trawler boat built by a trawler yard for trawler men (Scottish Fisheries Protection). So she could sail for ever in the biggest seas. But are limited to 16 knots so makes it hard to be a response asset.
What is interesting on this topic is the RN’s River class OPVs. Three were built for the RN patrol mission in local waters and a fourth for the Falklands. This one, HMS Cylde, was acquired via a performance based contract so when the contractor realised they would get more money from HM Govt. the longer it could stay on station (at the Falklands) they redesigned the hull and fittings. She has such a strong hull and reinforced engines and the like she can stay in the Falklands for 5-6 years without refit.
I've attended a few ship launchings in SA approx 4-5 years ago - they were deep sea prawn trawlers made by a couple of innovative croation fishermen who had an international market. they were pretty smick designs - and at every launch I saw a few RAN uniforms - even a few DSTO geeks who were looking at some of the design elements.
Ah huh but who wants to bet we will still end up with yet another aluminium hulled yatch pretending to be a patrol boat, come to think of it I have heard a number of naval acrhs and senior uniforms refer to the ANZACs as armed yatchs pretending to be frigates.
It’s the same criminal ignorance and outright lies that were wheeled out over the SIEV X sinking 10 years ago. David Marr’s infamous holding up of an Orion flight path to indicate that the ADF “must have known, and I have the maps to prove it” about SIEV X before it sank because the line on the map looked close to where the ship went down is a canard that comes to mind. Of course looking close on a 1:2,000,000 scale map still means 50km away and the aircraft only flies this route once per day meaning for 23 hours and 50 minutes of the day it isn’t actually anywhere near this point. But don’t let that get in the way of a good conspiracy theory.
If you have absolutely no understanding of even the most simple physical realities of ships at sea and planes in the air and *believe* that something unjust is happening it’s a natural step to then interpret all this as some kind of conspiracy. Of course if you are so ignorant of the technical specifics and are motivated primarily by feelings one shouldn’t be forming strong opinions about anything.
Todjaeger
Potstirrer
Here is a series of questions for the group. What Sea States were the Fremantle-class patrol boats designed for?
Also, what Sea States are the ACPB's really designed for? I am aware that the ACPB's are supposed to be able to conduct all ops up to Sea State 4, and conduct surveillance ops in Sea State 5. At what point though does the conditions corresponding to a particular Sea State actually becoming damaging to the ACPB? And the same question for the FCPB's.
What I am trying to get at , is part of the decision making process which led to the ACPB's and their respective limitations in service to the RAN today.
The apparent consensus is that the ACPB's really are insufficient for what the RAN needs. This is both in terms of where the RAN operates and the conditions patrol vessels will face in those areas of operation. It is also apparent that the resources of the ACPB's are insufficient for many tasks, having the ability to reasonably accomodate too few people aboard. Having space to hold a score of people picked up off a SIEV or illegally fishing trawler is good, but if the SIEV has dozens (or more) of passengers, then the ACPB's will be overtaxed, possibly dangerously so.
Now in addition to determining why/who set the ACPB Sea State operations level, who had a hand in determining the "passenger" capacity requirement?
-Cheers
Also, what Sea States are the ACPB's really designed for? I am aware that the ACPB's are supposed to be able to conduct all ops up to Sea State 4, and conduct surveillance ops in Sea State 5. At what point though does the conditions corresponding to a particular Sea State actually becoming damaging to the ACPB? And the same question for the FCPB's.
What I am trying to get at , is part of the decision making process which led to the ACPB's and their respective limitations in service to the RAN today.
The apparent consensus is that the ACPB's really are insufficient for what the RAN needs. This is both in terms of where the RAN operates and the conditions patrol vessels will face in those areas of operation. It is also apparent that the resources of the ACPB's are insufficient for many tasks, having the ability to reasonably accomodate too few people aboard. Having space to hold a score of people picked up off a SIEV or illegally fishing trawler is good, but if the SIEV has dozens (or more) of passengers, then the ACPB's will be overtaxed, possibly dangerously so.
Now in addition to determining why/who set the ACPB Sea State operations level, who had a hand in determining the "passenger" capacity requirement?
-Cheers
Ananda
The Bunker Group
Yes and No.
Yes for the image that've been floating around for some time is in deed a photoshopped. No, due to what Peter mentioned in his post is a real thing. The vessels just being launched yesterday. It's scheduled to be in trial soon. It's a brainchild of collaboration from Indonesian Builders (North Sea Boats) and New Zealand Naval Architects firm LOMOcean Ltd.
More of this vessel I've put it on Indonesian Navy Thread.
I have just watched the Keel laying ceremony for HMAS HOBART and heard our esteemed defmin state that the completion date for the last ship has been moved right to 2019.
Is this something new today, have I missed an announcement or is the project in further time trouble?
There was nothing on the AWD Alliance website (extremely poor IMHO)
Is this something new today, have I missed an announcement or is the project in further time trouble?
There was nothing on the AWD Alliance website (extremely poor IMHO)
Thanks, missed that!
OTOH it could mean continuous production into the Anzac replacement/Collins replacement hence ensuring skills are not squandered once again.
Optimism in defence procurement is a dangerous bedfellow!
Oh - we wish .......... wouldn't it be great to see that the government actually had developed a long term plan and stuck to it ..........
It has almost everything to do with this insane idea that the government has, that a budget surplus comes before everything else.
Optimism in defence procurement is more than a dangerous bedfellow - it is a path to despair ............
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