kev 99
Member
I don't reckon it's worth it, you won't get a yes/no answer it will be some vague nebulous waffle about future systems/threats/developing technology/blah blah blah...................
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The Royal Navy Discussions and Updates
- Thread starter overlander
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True, but it took about 5 minutes (with several other questions) and i've got nothing to lose so
Occasionally you get a little nugget of information that's worthwhile, like last time I was told that there will be a decision on replacing HMS Ocean in 2015 rather than some generic answer.
I think to use the words "easily" and "integration" in relation to any weapon system or for that matter any IT system is generally very unwise. You could only have tempted fate more if you had said "cheaply" ;-)Equal measures of blind optimism and enthusiasm in the munition
I know it's a fairly bold claim to make, but it seems easily at least a potential weapon considering what it can do and will be compatible with Mk41 and A70 VLS + all the potential intergration solutions available is very good.
Missile systems, defence systems - MBDA missiles
I don't think it would be unwise to say it was easily a potential weapon IMO or me saying the potential intergration solutions being availbale is rather large
Didn't say that integration was easy, just said that there's plenty of options available
As to being cheap, no way, it'll be more comparable in price to a TLAM (or greater) than any SCALP derivative today considering the performance MBDA plans it to have.
Not sure about deck penetration, I couldn't find much info out there. This is just a promo video so take it with a grain of salt, but having a look at the small size of the vessel on which the Sea Skua boxes are mounted gives the (rough) impression that it's relatively compact.That's true, forgot about the Wildcat - and the FASGW-H - for a second there
Yeah, that comes back to my question as to which strike length cells should the Type 26 for the RN use; Mk41 or Sylver A70, after all the former could use ESSM etc which could fulfil those roles, but that'd involve bringing in more missiles the RN doesn't currently use yadda-yadda all that logistical stuff
[nomedia="http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=iAh8Pv5F-yA"]Ship Launched Sea Skua Missle -The Power To Protect - YouTube[/nomedia]
Yeah, the ESSM isn't much practical use to the RN I imagine (although it very well may appear on export versions of T26), really I just mentioned it out of interest in the whole dual-role thing. As I mentioned in my original post, Sea Skua as FASGW are the most realistic options, whether helo-launched or otherwise. And like Swerve said, there's some interesting developments in gun ammunition out there, 127mm Vulcano, for example. Don't know if that would help the RN either though, if the current 4.5 inch gun is kept on (unless they develop a guided munition for moving targets for themselves).
I'm still curious to see how Fire Shadow is developed. I think that makes an interesting, and potentially very useful, option.
That's logical. It's improbable that the US would restrict the fitting of Mk 41 (in the appropriate incarnation - don't forget there are different versions, of different lengths) to a ship for sale to a navy which already operates weapons which fit it,
There's been an article in the Telegraph about the Royal Navy using more drones for their routine tasks
New generation of unmanned sea drones 'could launch attacks on other vessels' - Telegraph
IMO ony of the more interesting potential uses of drones would be a submarine deploying them and then the drone rises to periscope depth to enable communications to the sub rather than the whole sub surfacing.
New generation of unmanned sea drones 'could launch attacks on other vessels' - Telegraph
That's supposedly from a document published by DSTL.
IMO ony of the more interesting potential uses of drones would be a submarine deploying them and then the drone rises to periscope depth to enable communications to the sub rather than the whole sub surfacing.
I think the focus on drones has probably rightly been elsewhere, that said there could be much more radical use of USVs, even with the technology currently available. I don't think they should replace the helicopter (manned or unmanned) in the ASW role, but they could have a lot of advantages: longer patrols, ability to drift silently, heavier payloads/potential for a heavyweight ASW 21" torpedoes etc. Working together they could be a powerful challenge to a submarine.
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Indeed, drone technology is certainly - at the moment - in a more advantageous position on land. But that's not to say that deployment on surface ships would be useless.
I was thinking more along the lines of packing several Stingrays on a UAV, if there actually was a potential for ASW work, rather than going for the heavies as (at least, going by Wiki figures) 1 Spearfish for the RN equals 6 Stingrays so IMO the lighter variant would be the better way to go.
Hell, looking at the FireScout (again, Wiki figs), the MQ-8C has a payload of 600 - 700 lbs so it could just about be able to hold a single Stingray so at least currently, UAV tech isn't developed enough to be able to do anything effective in the ASW role.
Sorry I was not clear, I didn't mean an ASW UAV but an ASW USV, and much bigger than we have seen before, something that would compliment the Merlins and work with them. Something like an unmanned M80 Stiletto:
[ame="http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/M80_Stiletto"]M80 Stiletto - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia[/ame].
A Type 26 with 2 Merlin on board working as a mother ship, with 4-6 USV operating at say 100 miles radius, with their own dipping, even hull sonars (much bigger than possible with even a Merlin) all being coordinated by the ships TAS (almost an extension of it?). These USV could just drift to minimise background sound, and then use their high speed to relocate. Initially you could just fit helicopter detection kit, but there must be massive scope to improve on this, with the benefit of permanent hull/sea contact and less weight restrictions.
Missions can be in days/even weeks not hours with a helicopter, and for the cost they could be a huge force multiplier.
As I understand it an airborne ASW torpedo is almost fire and forget, whereas a Spearfish can be fired and then controlled by the launch platform, also a much faster and/or longer range weapon; never an option for aircraft, but on a USV potentially another real advance. The warhead is probably a bit of overkill, but they could always scale it back and replace with more fuel.
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Definitely too big, and then where would it fit? In most of the more recent chatter about the Type 26 (and shown in the latest graphics) that the mission bay has been tossed because of the size reduction that it experienced and it's been replaced instead by grabber arms in the superstructure, the same as those on the T45.
So anything in that sort of range would be far too heavy for that crane I suspect. Not to mention the size of the compartments the boats are stored in.
There's nothing concrete about the T26 holding 2 Merlins either, i'm relatively hopeful because of the locations of the mission bays in relation to the hangar but even then it's doubtful.
IMO as the tech stands, using it in any forms of ASW work would be highly limited in terms of USV/UAV vehicles.
Indeed, for the RN IIRC the Stingray uses acoustic homing and Spearfish can be acoustic homing or wire guided.
The unit cost of Spearfish is around £2million so it'd be severe overkill - financially as well as in terms of the size of the warhead - for most of it's potential uses.
Personally, I believe that if Stingray is good enough to be paired with the Merlin and as the 2087/Merlin combo has a particularly effective reputation, it'd be good enough for any future USV/UAV projects if only for the weight of the munition.
kev 99
Member
T26 won't have a hanger big enough for 2 Merlins, the best we can hope for there is a Merlin and a Wildcat, what I expect we'll get though is a Merlin and UAVs or 2 Wildcats.
How big are expecting these unmanned M80s to be? Becasue that thing looks huge, any ship carrying one of those would have to be pretty big.
How big are expecting these unmanned M80s to be? Becasue that thing looks huge, any ship carrying one of those would have to be pretty big.
Agreed, the T45 can fit them in quite nicely whilst having 2 mission bays either side of the hanger, so even though the T26 is a smaller ship, having them positioned differently might mean the hangar spaces are roughly equivalent.
Depends on how you want to do things - you don't have to do the entire detect/track/prosecute from one platform. You could get some cheap USV's with sensors to cover a lot of water around the platform then either direct a conventional manned ASW helo to the spot or if the RN forked out for one of the rocket assisted torpedo delivery systems, you could park a lightweight torpedo on top of the target with very little warning.
Looking at the M80, that's far too big to be embarked by anything sort of an LHD I'd have thought ?
Looking at the M80, that's far too big to be embarked by anything sort of an LHD I'd have thought ?
That's something I've been thinking out too, I had a vision of a ship or CBG or whatever deploying a ring of say 5 - 6 guided USVs which essentially are just sonobuoys.
The feasibility of this for actual operations i'm not too sure of, but doesn't sound like a too much of a bad idea IMO.
It's in keeping with the way the land and air battle is shaping up - distributed sensors, data links with a couple of shooters in the mix - it just depends on how large and complex you want to make the USV. You could effectively take the guts of a Stingray or similar and add the data link and so forth to that and use the whole thing as a recoverable but battle expendable USV.
Having said that, keeping the torpedoes off the USV's makes them a lot easier and safer to handle, and in particular, recover.
Having said that, keeping the torpedoes off the USV's makes them a lot easier and safer to handle, and in particular, recover.
Interesting historical perspective on the cancelled Horizon project, illustrating the difficulty of a tri-national project in which all the players have the capability to build the entire thing.
Particularly interesting to me were the comments on how the Type 23 had grown after the Falklands war in response to experiences with damage control and capability.
Horizon: The Common New Generation Frigate
Particularly interesting to me were the comments on how the Type 23 had grown after the Falklands war in response to experiences with damage control and capability.
Horizon: The Common New Generation Frigate
Apologies for treating the board like a news feed aggregator but I really found this post on thinpinstripedblog very interesting.
It covers basically why HMG can't just click on "add to cart" for a pair of Type 45's/
Thin Pinstriped Line
Might help head off some repetitive discussions on "why don't we just..."
Ian
It covers basically why HMG can't just click on "add to cart" for a pair of Type 45's/
Thin Pinstriped Line
Might help head off some repetitive discussions on "why don't we just..."
Ian
the concerned
Active Member
I'm just asking does the t-45 actually carry both aster 15-30 if so i was wondering why don't it just carry the 30's as when you are in a task force you would already have short range sam's with the t-23 and later on the t-26.