Royal Australian Navy Discussions and Updates

[t68]

i didnt want to double post at the time, but i did laugh at the question...not for being a prick or anything, but because the optimist in me says no

.

Being in the loop has its benefits to those that still serve or still involved with defence. I only look from the outside in now.

With this government I would not be surprised that they would find a way to bring back Success to show that original decision was right and they know what they are doing.


Just out of curiosity, how many tankers have been converted to a double hull like Success and have no problems?

 

[mankyle]

Some new pics (this time taken from another ship) of the HMAS Adelaide launch-

They are pretty good. Now, oficially, the Canberra will be loaded in the Blue Marlin in August 4th. Then she will stay in the harbor of Ferrol while the canberra is bolted to the steel bed that will ensure she won't move during the travel to Oz.

fotosdebarcos.com / fotosdebarcos.org :: Ver tema - HMAS 01 Adelaide


And another link to the Revista Naval (Navy Journal) home site. It's a military navy news site. This link shows their photographic coverage of the launching ceremony. Unfortunately everything is in spanish.

http://www.revistanaval.com/fotonot...onica-grafica-botadura-lhd-adelaide-launching

 

[Trackmaster]

Having a look at the photos of the launch of the Adelaide, am I alone in finding it unusual there was not a senior Australian Government Minister there?
Or were they hiding from the camera?

 

[icelord]

Having a look at the photos of the launch of the Adelaide, am I alone in finding it unusual there was not a senior Australian Government Minister there?
Or were they hiding from the camera?

you say it like its a bad thing...the less photo ops minister(like say the current one) have with this project, the less involved they'll become

 

[Trackmaster]

I totally agree with your comments, Icelord...but it is a two edged sword.

Some official presence, apart from the chap in white, may have given the project and the people working on it the recognition it deserves.

But of course if the main man was there, he probably would have sold the ship off to a Norwegian oil exploration company.

 

[Vanguard]

Very surprised that neither Clare or Smith did not worm a government holiday to Spain to do the launch whilst they are on their parliamentary leave, the vast majority though are trying to sell the Carbon Tax at moment not to mention the Bushmaster programme and so forth so probably did not have time, especially as the media would have picked up on it very quickly.

Generally though for Australians it is a non-story, the Canberra got a 20 second mention on most news channels, people are in general not interested in defence outside of Afghanistan and Anzac Day why waste valuable time on something that will not get them any benefit.

 

[gf0012-aust]

myself and others have been saying for over 8 years that we should partner up with the Japanese due to the capability of the Oyashio/Soryu's

Hamish McDonald has now discovered the SIA and also discovered how good the Japanese subs are.

don't you love broadsheet journos - they're so on the ball its not funny....

 

[rand0m]

myself and others have been saying for over 8 years that we should partner up with the Japanese due to the capability of the Oyashio/Soryu's

Hamish McDonald has now discovered the SIA and also discovered how good the Japanese subs are.

don't you love broadsheet journos - they're so on the ball its not funny....

For those who want a read, a small video too.
Navy eyeing off new Japanese submarines

RA Rowan Moffitt, he makes sense. Finally somebody sets it straight and clear, hopefully he gets listened to!

 

[Volkodav]

For those who want a read, a small video too.
Navy eyeing off new Japanese submarines

RA Rowan Moffitt, he makes sense. Finally somebody sets it straight and clear, hopefully he gets listened to!

I would be very happy with that move and considering the close working relationship Australia has had over the years with various Japanese companies collaberation on new subs should be more straight forward than with many other nations.

 

[Prosper]

the less photo ops minister(like say the current one) have with this project, the less involved they'll become

therefore the more successful the project is??

 

[ASSAIL]

don't you love broadsheet journos - they're so on the ball its not funny

....

Couldn't help but notice that Hamish McDonald is Fairfax Media's Asia Pacific Affairs editor, not a defence reporter. Further, the video shows a rational professional RADM Moffat explaining the obvious (certainly to the DT informed contributors). One can only hope that the boy geniuses on the staff of both parties defence Minister/shadow Minister take note RADM Moffat's advocacy. Off course, this assumes that their bosses ever take advice.

Still, Fairfax didn't get it quite right, the shots of the AWD fabrication had little to do with subs!

 

[ADMk2]

Couldn't help but notice that Hamish McDonald is Fairfax Media's Asia Pacific Affairs editor, not a defence reporter. Further, the video shows a rational professional RADM Moffat explaining the obvious (certainly to the DT informed contributors). One can only hope that the boy geniuses on the staff of both parties defence Minister/shadow Minister take note RADM Moffat's advocacy. Off course, this assumes that their bosses ever take advice.

Still, Fairfax didn't get it quite right, the shots of the AWD fabrication had little to do with subs!

The tens of seconds of young tradies grinding away on bits of metal were certainly compulsive viewing though...

 

[icelord]

For those who want a read, a small video too.
Navy eyeing off new Japanese submarines

RA Rowan Moffitt, he makes sense. Finally somebody sets it straight and clear, hopefully he gets listened to!

Im actually impressed an Rear Admiral has gone out and knocked back the Euro options, as well as nuclear in the same video. He all but hints that japan is our best option, and rules out nukes and Euro for what they are, unacceptable to our requirments. I get the idea he has a clue, lets see if others follow it.

therefore the more successful the project is??

In some ways yes, but others....ehhh
Look at bomber beazley, while Defmin he loved the ADF, loved riding in tanks, he had a school boy grin while running round in a leopard in the 90s, and he made some dreadful decisions at a time of serious cutbacks. But he was looking at our intrests more then his own, he didnt use the portfolio as a stepping stone like, say smith.
If a minister gets a pic, and gets linked with a project, then they can seek to push it through to the end. Make sure its scandal free and working, and those two words are key. its not good PR if theres issues and the first pic the news shows is you as minister smiling while its launched. Lets not forget, thats all some pollies go for, the shiny toys that make them look good.

 

[Volkodav]

In some ways yes, but others....ehhh
Look at bomber beazley, while Defmin he loved the ADF, loved riding in tanks, he had a school boy grin while running round in a leopard in the 90s, and he made some dreadful decisions at a time of serious cutbacks. But he was looking at our intrests more then his own, he didnt use the portfolio as a stepping stone like, say smith.
If a minister gets a pic, and gets linked with a project, then they can seek to push it through to the end. Make sure its scandal free and working, and those two words are key. its not good PR if theres issues and the first pic the news shows is you as minister smiling while its launched. Lets not forget, thats all some pollies go for, the shiny toys that make them look good.

A big part of the poor press the Collins Class gets was initially due to the public perception that it was Beazleys baby which permitted the Howard government to bludgeon him with it over and over again. Exaggerate the issues and blame the bomber, making sure the public head about every single cent that had to be spent to fix Kimbos stuff up. Now the door has revolved again and the supposedly fixed subs are suddenly broken again.

 

[StoresBasher]

Totally off topic...
Currently one Channel One in Australia, is Ross Kemp In Search Of Pirates.
He's onboard HMS Northumberland, who are on patrol in the Gulf of Aden.
Pretty similar to what our ships are doing.

 

[icelord]

Totally off topic...
Currently one Channel One in Australia, is Ross Kemp In Search Of Pirates.
He's onboard HMS Northumberland, who are on patrol in the Gulf of Aden.
Pretty similar to what our ships are doing.

not quite, they have decent ROE and get search areas off Somalia, ours always tend to be around the red sea, where theres been one pirate attack in the last 10 years...we get 2 weeks if we're lucky off the high target area off the North East coast of somalia, the EU is lightyears ahead of us in the anti-piracy operation, we just flag wave...yes im a pessimist cause we had a shit deployment, and yes ive noticed ever since we only ever get 1 pirate incident for every 50 that happen. until we get serious over there, we are just pissing in the wind.

 

[swerve]

Im actually impressed an Rear Admiral has gone out and knocked back the Euro options, as well as nuclear in the same video. He all but hints that japan is our best option, and rules out nukes and Euro for what they are, unacceptable to our requirments. I get the idea he has a clue, lets see if others follow it..

I'm sure someone here will want to comment on this little snippet from the admiral -

Where is our problem area? Propulsion system. No other nation builds submarines of that size. They do. They've cracked it. Even if I was only going to buy their diesels, their main motor and their generators, I would still be in front.

 

[ASSAIL]

I'm sure someone here will want to comment on this little snippet from the admiral

-

I don't have experience in very large deisel engines but, having run engines in the 400hp to 2,00hp range for the last 30 years as well as running three Japanese built vessels, I agree with him 100%.,

There is no doubt in my mind that when run side by side against european and US built machinery under the same conditions, Japanese engines are superior in rugged reliability, ease of maintenance and build quality, in particular; Yanmar and Niigata(my direct experience) despite them not always being at the forefront of technology.

This has to be balanced against the magnificent service networks of the big three, Cat, MTU/Detroit and Cummins.

I take it that the Admirals comments are coloured by the RAN's unhappy experiences with Hedemora and British built engines.

Now....let me find my Flak jacket

 

[Tee_Centre_10]

There is little public information available to be able to make even the most basic of assessments about the capabilities of Japanese submarines. And those in the know wouldn't like to talk out of turn.

But, we must consider the fact that Japan has been in a Cold War of sorts with three active, North Asian submarine users (Russia, China and North Korea), one of whom is an aggressive user of diesel submarines for clandestine purposes.
This threat obviously compels Japan to invest heavily in counter-measures, and while I make no judgements on the success/effectiveness of this investment, I think we can conclude that JMSDF would spend significant funds and energy on their SSG program.

Even if it would be cheaper and easier for the JMSDF to just licence build a foreign design in Japan. Mitsubishi F-2, anyone?

I have been a bit dismayed at the talk surrounding SEA 1000 and that Defence only talk about German, French and Spanish designs being considered. I hope it was just an attempt at diplomacy about the issue before Japan's recent decision to relax arms restrictions.

 

[StingrayOZ]

I hope it was just an attempt at diplomacy about the issue before Japan's recent decision to relax arms restrictions.

There are issues, and even if Japan and Australia are totally chummy and in love, Im not sure we would end up with the exact same hull as them. Does it meet our requirements (tropical waters?), mixed gender, range, systems, etc. However you would imagine that Japan supplying engines and some systems or components would be relatively easy and acceptable.

Historically submarines have used things like adapted train diesel engines or engines from stationary purposes. Trains have been favoured because they tend to be narrower and more compact. While cheap to procure, they have always been temperamental.
[ame="http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/English_Electric_diesel_engines"]English Electric diesel engines - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia[/ame]

At the time the government was looking at COTS stuff, the Japanese certainly aren't hawking submarines to just anyone so were never going to be a part of a regular COTS program (which is essentially not practical but is being done so others can't say its a magical bomber type project).. If we get something from the Japanese, it will be most likely in a different form than a whole ship design off an existing class.