The EMP strike. Are there some kind of preservation mechanisms?

[PCShogun]

I was not sure about the need for a ground either but a buddy next to me is a HAM operator and told me it did. That's what I get for not researching it myself. I did find some material that states, as you do, that a small faraday cage, even a simple aluminum box, requires no ground. However, some articles say you do. It seems to be an unresolved discussion but may have to do with confusion of electrical versus elctromagnetic energy.

Since shoplifters often put the tagged merchandise inside a insulated bag, the insulated and aluminum lined bags at your local Walmart, to get the RFID tags past the security checker, you must be correct.

 

[PhysicsMan]

I was not sure about the need for a ground either but a buddy next to me is a HAM operator and told me it did. That's what I get for not researching it myself. I did find some material that states, as you do, that a small faraday cage, even a simple aluminum box, requires no ground. However, some articles say you do. It seems to be an unresolved discussion but may have to do with confusion of electrical versus elctromagnetic energy.

Since shoplifters often put the tagged merchandise inside a insulated bag, the insulated and aluminum lined bags at your local Walmart, to get the RFID tags past the security checker, you must be correct.

There's nothing unresolved about it. If the metal is conducting enough (has enough free electrons) and thick enough (also to that end) than those electrons will shield the incoming electric (and electromagnetic, but not magnetic) fields. So, your friend was may be right in the sense that microwaves have really thin shielding that may not have enough free electrons in it for a good shield, so a ground will fix that by providing additional electrons to the shield.

 

[anon]

The entire EMP scenario fascinates me because it could be a real game changer in the event of a real conflict. Ive been reading the other posts to the thread and im reading many assumptions to the topic and not enough fact maybe by starting this thread up again we can get more fact. As a scenario I would say that an EMP would be used by the Chinese if the Asia Pacific War breaks out. Considering a false scenario, lets say the US is re positioning the pacific fleet to go toe to toe with the front lines of the Chinese navy before the USN hits the critical littoral combat zone between Taiwan and China shores. Using this false scenario lets assume Task Force 71 from the 7F is deployed from Guam, its 1800 miles away would it not be smart to just deploy a specifically designed nuke/EMP weapon in the path of the fleet to disable it?? So the question turns into is the Navy's fleet critical electronics shielded by EMP. IMO the DDG-1000 mandatory requirements is to be heavily EMP shielded. I don't see the scenario where the EMP would be launched over US soil because then it would mean nuclear obliteration for the enemy. I understand that by the time of this conflict happening possibly late this decade or in the mid 2020's most of the USN 7th fleet will already be stationed in the surrounding countries Singpore, Vietnam, Japan, SK as much already is. So the next question is it possible that they or we are developing a (targeted) EMP weapon that focuses on highly concentrated EMP to reduce dispersion distance?For Example a tactical nuke set off at a very low altitude or some other sort of device Directed Energy Weapon of some sort. Thanks guys!

I know that China has been testing EMP's (which is quite obvious) but as well as off my coast (California). I don't know if any of you remember that whole news craze over the streak of smoke in the air and whether it was a contrail or missile. But what I have read a lot about is it was a missile off after a Chinese sub launched an EMP off our coast that shut down a cruise ship (Can't post the link new member but look it up. Chinese EMP off California Coast)

This brings up a great issue because I live in Southern California where there are numerous bases from nuclear subs to the biggest bases of troops in the country. So if this EMP knocked out our power and even if half the electronics of our military were down a full invasion would not be an impossible task or unforseeable.

 

[Beatmaster]

Double post please delete.

 

[Beatmaster]

I know that China has been testing EMP's (which is quite obvious) but as well as off my coast (California). I don't know if any of you remember that whole news craze over the streak of smoke in the air and whether it was a contrail or missile. But what I have read a lot about is it was a missile off after a Chinese sub launched an EMP off our coast that shut down a cruise ship (Can't post the link new member but look it up. Chinese EMP off California Coast)

This brings up a great issue because I live in Southern California where there are numerous bases from nuclear subs to the biggest bases of troops in the country. So if this EMP knocked out our power and even if half the electronics of our military were down a full invasion would not be an impossible task or unforseeable.

I am sure that most modern nations are able to develop and test EMP based weapons, so its somewhat easier to obtain then nuclear tech and has in the right situation a perhaps bigger effect.
China will not test a EMP of the coast of California, just as much the US would test a Nuke in China's backyard.
Please provide some sources....

In regards to hardening hardware i personally believe that most modern equipment has already some sort of hardening as a factory default.
I am sure that the Bram, Challenger, Leo2. merk and T-version MBT's are all hardened to survive a direct/indirect EMP event....And if not then i am sure that the upgrade package is available if needed...

The real problem for a victim of a EMP strike would not necessarily be its military hardware, and even civilian key assets are pretty good protected.
For example someone mentioned wall street and the effect of a EMP in the heart of the economic system, well personally i cannot say much about it as i just have never been there so i cannot say a thing, but if i can take a example of my own nation we got a bank called Abn Amro who has their main data center +power supply in Amsterdam, its a vault within a vault and totally shielded from ANY event as its build in one of the old cold war army network hubs which are shielded against direct and indirect nuke and Emp events, also it has lines going out which cannot be disrupted by for example a EMP.
My point here is that a EMP will fry electronics, but it will not touch the major assets as most of them are placed on a key value list and thus pretty well protected and shielded with enough back up to make sure that it keeps running.
The real danger would be for direct and indirect communications and radar/ life support systems but still most of those systems can be restarted by just a redundant reboot system or fail over.
So i am not saying that a EMP is harmless because its deffo NOT and it will do serious damage and it will blind your victim for some time, however a EMP will not be able to bring down a nation...
Same goes for naval bases and capital ships they are shielded to their teeth and a EMP strike would disable them only for a couple of minutes till their systems are rebooted and rerouted, so a EMP would be better used as a opening attack to cover up a serious air strike...as i said a EMP will black out a big region for some time, stopping cell phones and all civilian and lower ranked government communications...so it could be used as the " joker" card during a initial attack, however key communications and key units will remain operational....

At least thats what i assume....

 

[anon]

I am a new member so I cant post a direct link but here is the meat of the article:


" A new report circulating in the Kremlin today prepared for Prime Minister Putin by Director Anatoly Perminov of the Russian Federal Space Agency states that an Arkon-1 military satellite monitoring the western coastal regions of North America detected an “EMP anomalous event” occurring on November 8th at 0600 Pacific Standard Time (-8 hours GMT) that bore the “direct signature” of a YJ-62 subsonic anti-ship missile fired from a Chinese People’s Liberation Navy Type 041 submarine (NATO code name Yuan-Class) [photo 2nd left] known to be patrolling approximately 200 kilometers off United States coast.

Nearly 11 hours after this EMP “event”, this report further says, Arkon-1 then detected a BGM-109 (Tomahawk) subsonic cruise missile launched from a US Navy Ohio-Class submarine operating off the coast of California [photo bottom left] on a “training mission” from its home port located at US Navy’s Kitsap Base in Washington State and was enroute to the largest American Naval Base on the US west coast in San Diego, California.

Note: A Russian military intelligence (GRU) addendum to this report states that the “training mission” the Ohio-Class submarine was on is related to a new US law passed this year allowing for the first time in history for women to serve on US Navy subs and was an “operational exercise” testing female Naval Officers competence prior to their first “operational deployment”.

The “immediate effect” of the Chinese Navy’s firing of their EMP missile, this report continues, was the “catastrophic crippling” of the US based cruise ship Carnival Splendor [photo 3rd left] that stranded its nearly 4,500 passengers and crew in a “dead in the water” boat and prompting the Americans to send the US Navy’s Ronald Reagan aircraft carrier, warplanes, and supply aircraft to protect it from further attack after all of its electronic systems were destroyed.

An electromagnetic pulse (EMP) such as was used upon the Carnival Splendor is a burst of electromagnetic radiation that causes rapidly changing electric fields (or magnetic fields) that when coupling with electrical/electronic systems produces damaging current and voltage surges destroying all non-hardened electrical systems.

The US Naval Surface Warfare Center (NSWC) had previously warned that American ships were vulnerable to such attacks with EMP Assessment Group Leader of Blaise Corbett stating that “the consequences of failing to take appropriate precautions to protect fleet mission critical systems can ultimately prove catastrophic to the Navy’s mission.”

The purpose of this Chinese EMP upon an American ship, this report says, was twofold: 1.) A test of the EMP weapon itself that in a war against the Americans and would be used against their Naval Fleet and Marine Forces operating out of California and the west coast of the US, and 2.) A test of the response time for American retaliatory measures against any Chinese warship attacking the US and/or its interests in the Pacific.

The GRU further states that the timing of this attack was timed even more crucially due to China’s testing of America’s response time during a period when their President, as Commander In Chief of all US Military Forces, was out of the country, as Obama was as he was in India at the time.

The Americans response time of nearly 11 hours between the EMP attack on the Carnival Splendor and the US retaliatory strike, the GRU states, “virtually assured” that the Chinese submarine responsible for the attack escaped, but which they further point out may have been intended by the Americans so as not to escalate this crisis.

To the geo-political reason(s) for a Communist Chinese attack upon the Americans just days before the crucially important G-20 Summit in South Korea, which both President’s Hu and Obama will be attending, this report says was due to the United States, in essence, declaring total economic war upon the rest of the world by its printing of nearly $1 Trillion US Dollars in order to monetize its staggering debt and that China warned:

“If the United States can increase the volume of dollars and it can transmit inflation to other countries to lessen the pressure of debt, then it will bring about a catastrophic influence on the world.”


It may or may not be true, I always tend to believe that the US government wants us to close our eyes and let them tell us what we see. The US/China conflict is going to get more and more interesting as the years go by though.

 

[Beatmaster]

I am a new member so I cant post a direct link but here is the meat of the article:


" A new report circulating in the Kremlin today prepared for Prime Minister Putin by Director Anatoly Perminov of the Russian Federal Space Agency states that an Arkon-1 military satellite monitoring the western coastal regions of North America detected an “EMP anomalous event” occurring on November 8th at 0600 Pacific Standard Time (-8 hours GMT) that bore the “direct signature” of a YJ-62 subsonic anti-ship missile fired from a Chinese People’s Liberation Navy Type 041 submarine (NATO code name Yuan-Class) [photo 2nd left] known to be patrolling approximately 200 kilometers off United States coast.

Nearly 11 hours after this EMP “event”, this report further says, Arkon-1 then detected a BGM-109 (Tomahawk) subsonic cruise missile launched from a US Navy Ohio-Class submarine operating off the coast of California [photo bottom left] on a “training mission” from its home port located at US Navy’s Kitsap Base in Washington State and was enroute to the largest American Naval Base on the US west coast in San Diego, California.

Note: A Russian military intelligence (GRU) addendum to this report states that the “training mission” the Ohio-Class submarine was on is related to a new US law passed this year allowing for the first time in history for women to serve on US Navy subs and was an “operational exercise” testing female Naval Officers competence prior to their first “operational deployment”.

The “immediate effect” of the Chinese Navy’s firing of their EMP missile, this report continues, was the “catastrophic crippling” of the US based cruise ship Carnival Splendor [photo 3rd left] that stranded its nearly 4,500 passengers and crew in a “dead in the water” boat and prompting the Americans to send the US Navy’s Ronald Reagan aircraft carrier, warplanes, and supply aircraft to protect it from further attack after all of its electronic systems were destroyed.

An electromagnetic pulse (EMP) such as was used upon the Carnival Splendor is a burst of electromagnetic radiation that causes rapidly changing electric fields (or magnetic fields) that when coupling with electrical/electronic systems produces damaging current and voltage surges destroying all non-hardened electrical systems.

The US Naval Surface Warfare Center (NSWC) had previously warned that American ships were vulnerable to such attacks with EMP Assessment Group Leader of Blaise Corbett stating that “the consequences of failing to take appropriate precautions to protect fleet mission critical systems can ultimately prove catastrophic to the Navy’s mission.”

The purpose of this Chinese EMP upon an American ship, this report says, was twofold: 1.) A test of the EMP weapon itself that in a war against the Americans and would be used against their Naval Fleet and Marine Forces operating out of California and the west coast of the US, and 2.) A test of the response time for American retaliatory measures against any Chinese warship attacking the US and/or its interests in the Pacific.

The GRU further states that the timing of this attack was timed even more crucially due to China’s testing of America’s response time during a period when their President, as Commander In Chief of all US Military Forces, was out of the country, as Obama was as he was in India at the time.

The Americans response time of nearly 11 hours between the EMP attack on the Carnival Splendor and the US retaliatory strike, the GRU states, “virtually assured” that the Chinese submarine responsible for the attack escaped, but which they further point out may have been intended by the Americans so as not to escalate this crisis.

To the geo-political reason(s) for a Communist Chinese attack upon the Americans just days before the crucially important G-20 Summit in South Korea, which both President’s Hu and Obama will be attending, this report says was due to the United States, in essence, declaring total economic war upon the rest of the world by its printing of nearly $1 Trillion US Dollars in order to monetize its staggering debt and that China warned:

“If the United States can increase the volume of dollars and it can transmit inflation to other countries to lessen the pressure of debt, then it will bring about a catastrophic influence on the world.”


It may or may not be true, I always tend to believe that the US government wants us to close our eyes and let them tell us what we see. The US/China conflict is going to get more and more interesting as the years go by though.

you mean this link?: Chinese EMP Attack Prompts US Missile Strike After Cruise Ship Crippled

Just for the record i do not believe a word of the article, first if the Chinese where to attack a US ship it would trigger a counter strike, upon the ship that launched the missile, next to that the repercussions for the Chinese would be catastrophic as both US and NATO would jump on top of them, both diplomatically and military.
I do not say that it would mean WOIII but i am sure its going to be a close call then.

 

[Supermoves]

Interestingly I just read an article about this. The current plan in the event of an EMP, is to basically send up communications drones that can reestablish comms in the event of something catastrophic.

Once comms are up, things will get under control in a matter of days, rather than months. The military has plenty of vehicles and such that can withstand EMP, the real question is how to deal with the civil unrest that is allbut certain to occur.

I would, however, like to think that in this day and age getting a large EMP to detonate over US soil would be pretty damn impossible. I run a defense news website called The Intelligence News (The Intelligence News | Defense News | Iran News | Syria News) and there have been a few articles on EMP and the US preparedness and response if anyone is interested. FYI, I do not make money from the site, so not as shameless a plug as you might think at first

 

[PCShogun]

Communications would be re-established, but the electronic transactions that were occurring would be lost in transit. TENS OF BILLIONS in virtual money would be lost with no easy way to get it back. The stock market would likely be in chaos and economies would head back into recession.

All the world markets would have to agree to roll back to just prior to the event and resubmit all the transactions.

 

[NobodyMinus]

This thread doesn't make very much sense, needs more science

First of all, I'd like to address the concept of "An EMP".

An electromagnetic pulse is essentially a rapid and rapidly passing change in an electric field. This induces a large current, which results in a power surge im many electronic devices, destroying many of the functional (Resistance-creating) components.

This can be protected from in a variety of ways. As one poster mentioned, a Faraday Cage would protect you from an electromagnetic pulse, But, as is easy to pint out, it is simply impractical to put a Faraday cage around everything. What you really need in this scenario is an inductor. And inductor is just a coil of wire placed in the circuit. It resists changes in EMF and is used as a surge protector in commercial electronic devices. A high enough inductance will save you from an EMP, and that doesn't have to be very high

Keep in mind that here I discuss something called an E-1. It is the weakest form of EMP and the only type you would conceivable create with a source that is not a nuclear weapon, such as an explosively pumped flux compression generator, which is the only type of non-nuclear EMP generation device that I've ever heard of anyone actually proposing.

The nuclear EMP scenario is interesting, but I feel that no one's really discussing that here, and that's not really the way to discuss this sort of subject.

The fact is there isn't really any research into the ability to create large, electronic device damaging EMPs without nuclear weapons. The only one that's ever been proposed as far as I know is an explosively pumped flux compression generator, and the Russians abandoned their research into that topic after they deemed it impractical. I feel that this thread is similar to a thread about defense against the Galactic Empire's Death Star or some similar sci-fi weapon, kind of pointless.

 

[SamuraiBlue]

To protect electronics from a massive EMP, first as everyone stated you need to place it in a Faraday cage second more importantly, you need to either un-plug it or place a surge-cutter between the faraday cage and the power source since a power surge will be carried within the electric power lines.
It does not matter if the equipment is powered on or off since a massive induction current will burn the circuit especially anything using ICs since they are very sensitive to large currency compared to vacuum tubes.