The EMP strike. Are there some kind of preservation mechanisms?

[LedFarmer]

Hi!

Just a question. Is it possible to preserve gadgetry, electronics, cars, planes, trains, tanks etc. from electro magnetic pulse? Is it possible to isolate them somehow? Of course the simplest way is to turn them off when the pulse comes. So is there a way to prevent them from being burned down?

Thank you in advance!

 

[Belesari]

Hi!

Just a question. Is it possible to preserve gadgetry, electronics, cars, planes, trains, tanks etc. from electro magnetic pulse? Is it possible to isolate them somehow? Of course the simplest way is to turn them off when the pulse comes. So is there a way to prevent them from being burned down?

Thank you in advance!

I have been told that current electronics are pretty EMP resistant to for instance a nuke det in the upper atmosphere. Also pretty much any US military weapons systems tanks, helio, ships etc are EMP resistant to a very great degree so no worries.

As far as turning them off no it would still mess with some stuff.

 

[Thiel]

Build a Faraday cage around it. Unless the EMP strike is strong enough to litterally fry wires, it'll stop all electro-magnetic pulses.

 

[Marc 1]

I have been told that current electronics are pretty EMP resistant to for instance a nuke det in the upper atmosphere. Also pretty much any US military weapons systems tanks, helio, ships etc are EMP resistant to a very great degree so no worries.

As far as turning them off no it would still mess with some stuff.

Actually, I thought it was one of the reasons the Soviets stuck with using valves - they are far less likely to be fried from an EMP than moders semiconductors (hell, you can ruin modern components just from your static discharges!)

IIRC, turning an appliance off will not save it either as a current can be induced in curcuitry that has been turned off sufficient to fry the electronics. The circuitry must be shielded and have some form of isolation device to act as a fuse on any cabling that goes beyond the Faraday cage.

 

[JonMusser]

the real question i have is that if our military has some EMP resistance why dose not America have anything for the american infrastructure
sure we can destroy who ever attacked us yet nothing is lefty of our society our industrial base is gone our financial system is wiped out as a whole america has just taken a time machine to the early 1900's
Porter J. Goss said when he was CIA director that an emp strike is the single threat america has NO plan against.

 

[Thiel]

the real question i have is that if our military has some EMP resistance why dose not America have anything for the american infrastructure
sure we can destroy who ever attacked us yet nothing is lefty of our society our industrial base is gone our financial system is wiped out as a whole america has just taken a time machine to the early 1900's
Porter J. Goss said when he was CIA director that an emp strike is the single threat america has NO plan against.

Because it's economically impossible. The sheer cost involved in hardening electronics, combined with the absolutely staggering amount of electronics that permeates our lives would make it cost far more than the population is willing to pay in the post-Cold War world.

 

[JonMusser]

Because it's economically impossible. The sheer cost involved in hardening electronics, combined with the absolutely staggering amount of electronics that permeates our lives would make it cost far more than the population is willing to pay in the post-Cold War world.

okay so we are hit with 3 or 4 emp attacks simultaneous that essentially shuts down the entire continental US the US military is good because it has ability to withstand such an attack however the rest of america is dead in the water?

can we as a nation really accept this?

i am not saying everything needs to be safe guarded maybe just hospitals or maybe just specific spheres but as were are right now we are simply screwed!

 

[PBAngler]

current electronics resistant to EMP?

I have been told that current electronics are pretty EMP resistant to for instance a nuke det in the upper atmosphere. Also pretty much any US military weapons systems tanks, helio, ships etc are EMP resistant to a very great degree so no worries.

As far as turning them off no it would still mess with some stuff.

How do you know that current electronics are resistant to EMP? Do you have any evidence?

 

[huskerguy7]

I'll try to keep it simple.

EMPs target the circuit boards. Thus, shield the circuit boards and you'll be fine.

 

[Belesari]

How do you know that current electronics are resistant to EMP? Do you have any evidence?

I asked esentually the same question he did. That was the answer i got.

 

[Aware]

There is no protection ... viable.

Hi!

Just a question. Is it possible to preserve gadgetry, electronics, cars, planes, trains, tanks etc. from electro magnetic pulse? Is it possible to isolate them somehow? Of course the simplest way is to turn them off when the pulse comes. So is there a way to prevent them from being burned down?

Thank you in advance!

Hi, I am a new forum member, and short time listener - but my original degree was in elec engineering.

Some of the comments here are spot on, others not so much. Yes a faraday shield (big iron/ steel thin mesh cage might be useful, but EMP would be very high freq waves which would most likely zip through the cage (think microwave ovens and the spacing on the grill in the glass door).

Many hardened systems still use valves as they are much more hearty than semiconductors, but obviously much bigger too.

The issue with EMP is the extremely high spike and that it can provide a very wide frequency spectrum. You want to protect any gear, it needs to be mechanically protected (metal box of specific properties) and have any ingress to the system (metal wires, antennas etc) shielded or more appropriately protected by a high speed fuse - similar to the lightening protectors on space station antennas. Rolling out fibre-optic cable provides some inbuilt protection as fibre will not conduct the pulse - but all repeater amplifiers etc will.

I am sure that most defense assets will be protected up to a point, however if the EMP is by a nuke, you have many more worries than just the electronics. EMPs are a genuine worry however they are not that easy to build with any real power output, evidenced by not that many attacks at the moment.

 

[AMERICANMAN]

Hi, I am a new forum member, and short time listener - but my original degree was in elec engineering.

Some of the comments here are spot on, others not so much. Yes a faraday shield (big iron/ steel thin mesh cage might be useful, but EMP would be very high freq waves which would most likely zip through the cage (think microwave ovens and the spacing on the grill in the glass door).

Many hardened systems still use valves as they are much more hearty than semiconductors, but obviously much bigger too.

The issue with EMP is the extremely high spike and that it can provide a very wide frequency spectrum. You want to protect any gear, it needs to be mechanically protected (metal box of specific properties) and have any ingress to the system (metal wires, antennas etc) shielded or more appropriately protected by a high speed fuse - similar to the lightening protectors on space station antennas. Rolling out fibre-optic cable provides some inbuilt protection as fibre will not conduct the pulse - but all repeater amplifiers etc will.

I am sure that most defense assets will be protected up to a point, however if the EMP is by a nuke, you have many more worries than just the electronics. EMPs are a genuine worry however they are not that easy to build with any real power output, evidenced by not that many attacks at the moment.

I am pretty sure the USA has let a number of contracts for harding the electronics on its planes and I am pretty sure some of the new planes are equipped with EMP weapons and I am pretty certain USA use some EMP weapons in the Iraq war. I expect the next time the USA goes to war they are going to be in for some real nasty suprises in some new EMP technology.

 

[Aware]

I am pretty sure the USA has let a number of contracts for harding the electronics on its planes and I am pretty sure some of the new planes are equipped with EMP weapons and I am pretty certain USA use some EMP weapons in the Iraq war. I expect the next time the USA goes to war they are going to be in for some real nasty suprises in some new EMP technology.

I am pretty sure that the US has been looking to harden up against EMP for sometime now. However as you can imagine sometimes physics can be tricky to master. Evidence how long it took BP to plug a hole or find Osama. You can harden any electronics to an extent, just the proximity to the source that becomes the issue. I am sure that the DoD has been working on this for a long time and wish it and its agencies the best.

 

[corsair7772]

EMP effects on humans

I've run into reports about protests outside the ELF facility in the US due to concerns that long term exposure to the EM radiation emitting from these facilities causes health issues.

Could EMP weapons, if strong enough, cause any immediate harm to humans in close proximity or moderate range? I think i read in this fictional book (War in 2050 or something) about EMP weapons called scramblers which could paralyze or cause strokes\ hemorrhages in humans caught in its range.

 

[TACTICIAN]

The entire EMP scenario fascinates me because it could be a real game changer in the event of a real conflict. Ive been reading the other posts to the thread and im reading many assumptions to the topic and not enough fact maybe by starting this thread up again we can get more fact. As a scenario I would say that an EMP would be used by the Chinese if the Asia Pacific War breaks out. Considering a false scenario, lets say the US is re positioning the pacific fleet to go toe to toe with the front lines of the Chinese navy before the USN hits the critical littoral combat zone between Taiwan and China shores. Using this false scenario lets assume Task Force 71 from the 7F is deployed from Guam, its 1800 miles away would it not be smart to just deploy a specifically designed nuke/EMP weapon in the path of the fleet to disable it?? So the question turns into is the Navy's fleet critical electronics shielded by EMP. IMO the DDG-1000 mandatory requirements is to be heavily EMP shielded. I don't see the scenario where the EMP would be launched over US soil because then it would mean nuclear obliteration for the enemy. I understand that by the time of this conflict happening possibly late this decade or in the mid 2020's most of the USN 7th fleet will already be stationed in the surrounding countries Singpore, Vietnam, Japan, SK as much already is. So the next question is it possible that they or we are developing a (targeted) EMP weapon that focuses on highly concentrated EMP to reduce dispersion distance?For Example a tactical nuke set off at a very low altitude or some other sort of device Directed Energy Weapon of some sort. Thanks guys!

 

[2007yellow430]

The entire EMP scenario fascinates me because it could be a real game changer in the event of a real conflict. Ive been reading the other posts to the thread and im reading many assumptions to the topic and not enough fact maybe by starting this thread up again we can get more fact. As a scenario I would say that an EMP would be used by the Chinese if the Asia Pacific War breaks out. Considering a false scenario, lets say the US is re positioning the pacific fleet to go toe to toe with the front lines of the Chinese navy before the USN hits the critical littoral combat zone between Taiwan and China shores. Using this false scenario lets assume Task Force 71 from the 7F is deployed from Guam, its 1800 miles away would it not be smart to just deploy a specifically designed nuke/EMP weapon in the path of the fleet to disable it?? So the question turns into is the Navy's fleet critical electronics shielded by EMP. IMO the DDG-1000 mandatory requirements is to be heavily EMP shielded. I don't see the scenario where the EMP would be launched over US soil because then it would mean nuclear obliteration for the enemy. I understand that by the time of this conflict happening possibly late this decade or in the mid 2020's most of the USN 7th fleet will already be stationed in the surrounding countries Singpore, Vietnam, Japan, SK as much already is. So the next question is it possible that they or we are developing a (targeted) EMP weapon that focuses on highly concentrated EMP to reduce dispersion distance?For Example a tactical nuke set off at a very low altitude or some other sort of device Directed Energy Weapon of some sort. Thanks guys!

There has been a discussion about EMP without a nuclear explosion. If possible, and it were done to the USA by a signatory to the NPT that was not a Nuclear armed state, then the use of nukes would be illegal, and probably not done. Read the specifics of the treaty, and those with weapons promise never to use them against those that agreed not to develop them.

Art

 

[Supermoves]

Excellant Topic!!

There are indeed ways to protect gadgets against EMP. The first is called a Faraday Cage (sorry if I spelled that wrong). It is essentially keeping your electronics inside a metal box, without allowing them to come in contact with the metal sides.

I am not allowed to post links in my posts yet, but the How Stuff Works website has a great article on Faraday Cages protect electronics. The real problem with EMPs is that there is no way to put, say the electric grid, inside a faraday cage. There is no way to protect all of our GPS satellites with a faraday cage. So even if some of the military computers and electronics are protected, there will be little to no electricity available and probably no GPS signal as well.

 

[Supermoves]

I forgot to mention that this is also why directed energy weapons would be so effective. I think it was one of the Fast & Furious movies where the cops had something they could shoot at the cars, it would stick into them and use electricity to shut them down. Imagine if that were real?? Or a pistol that would shoot EMPs?

 

[PCShogun]

Excellant Topic!!

There are indeed ways to protect gadgets against EMP. The first is called a Faraday Cage (sorry if I spelled that wrong). It is essentially keeping your electronics inside a metal box, without allowing them to come in contact with the metal sides.

Your microwave oven is essentially a faraday cage, keeping electrical impulses inside itself, but it works the other way also. If you are worried about an EMP attack, put your important small electronics into a microwave. Leave it plugged in as it needs a ground.

 

[PhysicsMan]

Your microwave oven is essentially a faraday cage, keeping electrical impulses inside itself, but it works the other way also. If you are worried about an EMP attack, put your important small electronics into a microwave. Leave it plugged in as it needs a ground.

Actually, faraday's cage does not need a ground, so you can put your precious electronics in a cooking pot (preferably a thick one, like a cast iron dutch oven), put the cover on, and sleep soundly through a nuclear apocalypse.

Also, it's nonsense that electronics or circuitry don't work inside the cage - your TV is one.