Iranian response to a limited airstrike against nuclear facilities and infrastructure

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My2Cents

Active Member
Very true and i can support what you said, but thing is that Israel cannot take that much, if you look at the many online resources then you will see that ANY missile from Iran on to economic centers of Israel is going to cause the fragile economy to break.
As long as they stick to conventional warheads I doubt that Iran can do much more damage than Hezbollah did in 2006 overall, though more of it will be in Tele Aviv. Historically strategic bombardment has seldom broken a nation’s will to fight or its government’s hold on power, in fact the opposite is the normal effect. Witness Britain, Germany, and Japan in WWII, all of whom were subject to far more savage and sustained attacks than Iran is capable of delivering.
And this is the point where Israel cannot achieve what they set out to achieve because they do not have the weapons needed to penetrate multiple layers of hardening. Even the US would have a hard time with it.
Except for the MOP, it is unlikely that Israel cannot match or exceed the US capability in the ability to penetrate hardened targets, but they choose not to advertise the fact. What they lack is the capability to deliver a sufficient quantity to targets in Iran.
 

STURM

Well-Known Member
Amidst all this talk about Iran and nukes, I think we need to put things in perspective and understand how the issue came about. It was the Shah who wanted nuke weapons as part of his plans to make Iran a modern day version of the Persian empire and to make Iran a regional power, alongside the U.S. and Israel. Then came the 1979 Revolution and Khomeni issued an order to stop all research on nukes - both for peaceful and for weapons purposes - as he considered it unIslamic [off topic but before the Iraqi attack, the Mullahs had also considered selling off their F-14s as they considered it unecessary!] But after Saddam started using chemicals [with no strong response from the West as he was their man who was fighting the 'evil' Iranians] to compensate for the tactical shortcomings of his troops, the Iranian military or the Revolutionary Guards pressed Khomeni to restart the programme. And in later years, knowledge that Saddam has a full blown programme in place gave the Iranians added impetus.

[nomedia="http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=MmAL4SaGA0s"]The Full Story of Iran's Nuclear Program - Robert Fisk - YouTube[/nomedia]


[nomedia="http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=-x1mfhnQ3A4"]Robert Fisk - Iran knows that you won't get invaded if you have a nuclear weapon - YouTube[/nomedia]


[nomedia="http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=QYWKmQa_OJQ"]Living with a Nuclear Iran | Robert Kaplan - YouTube[/nomedia]


Also, Iranian military sources have announced publicly that their missiles can be equipped with cluster munitions. Imagine Tel Aviv being littered with unspent cluster bombs - nightmare scenario.
Do we know of any countries that actually have cluster warheads on SRBMs like the Scud and Iskander?

Whether or not Iran can hit targets of economic or military importance in Israel is irrelevant as they are meant to be symbolic and to demonstrate that Iran can hit back. The actual damage they cause is secondary. We can assume that some missiles will get through and will land on Israeli soil, and that will be enough for Israel to say that it is under attack and make a request for assistance from the U.S. A lot will also depend on the reaction of the Gulf Arabs. Though leaders of the Gulf Arab states may welcome moves to weaken Iran, they might not be so keen on cutting ties with Iran and seeing it destablised as that would directly effect them. There is also the important consideration as to how unpopular strikes by Israel or the U.S. on Iran will be amongst the Arab world.

To me, what will really be interesting [if that is the proper word] will be to see how strikes on Iran will effect Assad's position and the situation in Lebanon, which is already feeling the effects of what's happening in Syria. Then there is the possibility that Israel will attempt to do what it failed in 2006, to 'defeat' Hezbollah, who continue to resist Israel on the basis that even though Israel has withdrawn from the 'security zone', it still occupies Lebanese territory, the Shebaa Farms. No doubt the U.S. and Israel will continue trying to get the Lebanese government and other factions to 'deal' with Hezbollah, which has so far failed, due to a number of reasons. There is also the question of how Iran will act and whether it will adopt a different position in the event that Assad is toppled. As we all know Syria is Iran's only Arab 'ally' and that Western calls for regime change in Syria is largely targeted at Iran.

So its not a question if the US can win, or if they are powerful enough...sure they are no doubt.
There are numerous unanswered questions. What is for certain, based on past history, is that strikes on Iran will rapidly lead to things getting out of hand and spreading to other countries. Israel will largely remain insulated due to geography and being under Uncle Sam's protective umbrella. But other countries that share borders with Iran, and which are already unstable due to a number of factors such as the Arab Spring, will suffer the effects. And relations with the Muslim world, which has not fully recovered since the so called - 'War on Terror' will be effected. As Iraq and Afghanistan have shown, getting out is rarely as easy as getting in.

And the key here to have Iran get back into line here lies in Israel, if they would start talking serious peace and such and give back the captured regions to their surroundings then you will see Iran temper down in many ways.
And though we are constantly reminded by the mainstream Western press as to why Iran is such as 'bad boy' and so 'troublesome', no mentioned of the fact is made as to why Iran has problems with Israel in the first place. Like most problems in the Middle East, it goes back again to the unresolved Palestine/Israel issue........ which remains deadlocked primarily because of the continued building of settlements by Israel on land it doesn't own and occupies illegally. wishful thinking on my part but if the Palestine/Israel issue was resolved, so many problems would also be solved and the world would be a safer place.
 
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Twain

Active Member
This discussion leads me to some questions too, Is Israel serious when they say they will attack Iran if negotiations fail? Israel obviously knows that they don't have the capability to do much more than lightly damage Iran's nuclear program. Are the threats to attack just a bluff, Just a way to force the US to attack first or are they genuinely serious?

A unilateral Israeli attack has numerous and potentially severe consequences for Israel. Some of the possible outcomes include,

An Iranian missile strike on Israel.
Hezbollah attacking
With the new gov't in Egypt, they could quite easily start funneling large amounts of weapons into the Gaza Strip.
Iran could possibly infiltrate people into a destabilized Syria to both support Syria and launch attacks against Israel.
Even though relations are strained between Turkey and Iran, Turkey could turn even more hostile to Israel. Turkey has shown they are not above funneling weapons into Syria, If Israel attacks would they also allow weapons to slip into Lebanon?

Then you have to consider the route Israeli jets would have to take to get to Iran,

Through Iraq. Obviously Iraq couldn't stop them, but what would be the repercussions of violating Iraqi airspace?

Through Jordan and Saudi Arabia. Would Jordan and SA allow this? That would be very near to both Jordan and SA actually going to war with Iran.

The last option would be Turkish airspace. Would Turkey be ready for (at a minimum) border skirmishes with Iran? That is assuming Turkey allows Israeli jets to use their airspace.

Israel would be able to force their way through SA or Turkish airspace to attack Iran, their ability to get back home afterwards is different matter in my opinion. Israeli jets would likely be low on fuel, low on weapons and the pilots would be fatigued. The potential for substantial losses over Iran and in the intervening airspace is significant.

Taking all this into account, Is Israel serious or are they just trying to force everyone else's hand?
 

Beatmaster

New Member
This discussion leads me to some questions too, Is Israel serious when they say they will attack Iran if negotiations fail? Israel obviously knows that they don't have the capability to do much more than lightly damage Iran's nuclear program. Are the threats to attack just a bluff, Just a way to force the US to attack first or are they genuinely serious?

A unilateral Israeli attack has numerous and potentially severe consequences for Israel. Some of the possible outcomes include,

An Iranian missile strike on Israel.
Hezbollah attacking
With the new gov't in Egypt, they could quite easily start funneling large amounts of weapons into the Gaza Strip.
Iran could possibly infiltrate people into a destabilized Syria to both support Syria and launch attacks against Israel.
Even though relations are strained between Turkey and Iran, Turkey could turn even more hostile to Israel. Turkey has shown they are not above funneling weapons into Syria, If Israel attacks would they also allow weapons to slip into Lebanon?

Then you have to consider the route Israeli jets would have to take to get to Iran,

Through Iraq. Obviously Iraq couldn't stop them, but what would be the repercussions of violating Iraqi airspace?

Through Jordan and Saudi Arabia. Would Jordan and SA allow this? That would be very near to both Jordan and SA actually going to war with Iran.

The last option would be Turkish airspace. Would Turkey be ready for (at a minimum) border skirmishes with Iran? That is assuming Turkey allows Israeli jets to use their airspace.

Israel would be able to force their way through SA or Turkish airspace to attack Iran, their ability to get back home afterwards is different matter in my opinion. Israeli jets would likely be low on fuel, low on weapons and the pilots would be fatigued. The potential for substantial losses over Iran and in the intervening airspace is significant.

Taking all this into account, Is Israel serious or are they just trying to force everyone else's hand?
Well to be honest i personally think that Israel should be able to do some damage to Irans installations their Airforce should be considered as fully capable to get the job done.
Syria and Iraq back then did have nearly no hardened facilities and this allowed Israel to fully destroy their targets.
However Iran probably has taken notes from those attacks and probably made adjustment to their key defense positions and nuclear facilities.
So i assume that a high level of hardening will be applied to the key structures.
I am not sure how good Israels arsenal is against heavy fortified structures but i did read and see enough video's where analyst say that there is a very real limit in what Israel conventionally do as Iran is working towards the point where their key structures become immune to air attacks.
Personally i believe that Israel will try to stage a situation where the US is forced to finish the job as the US arsenal allows the Airforce to penetrate much deeper then any Israeli bomb could.
 

STURM

Well-Known Member
This discussion leads me to some questions too, Is Israel serious when they say they will attack Iran if negotiations fail
In history is any indicator, Israel has a history of taking action when it feels it is threatened or when it feels that military action can result in its political objectives being achieved. But to answer your question as to whether it will carry out its threat, we first have to ask why would Israel really need or want to attack Iran? Are the Israeli's being honest when they say that they have to act because a nuclear armed Iran would threaten the very existance of Israel? Perhaps the question should be asked is why would a nuclear armed Iran threaten Israel in the first place? Could it be that the real reason Israel does not want Iran to have nukes is because this would not only break Israel's nuclear monopoly and but also radically alter the way Israel counducts its foreign policy?

[nomedia="http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=qi6YDTC0Rb4&feature=relmfu"]The Spymaster: Meir Dagan on Iran's threat - YouTube[/nomedia]


[nomedia="http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=B6E5NVXGl-M&feature=related"]Israel and Iran: Meir Dagan - YouTube[/nomedia]


Robert Baer_Iran has already defeated Israel twice - YouTube

A lot of good points mentioned here by someone who has a deep understanding of Iran from actual experience.

[nomedia="http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=5kMexPb3eg0"]Robert Baer says,"Iran is a new Super Power"(Malay Sub) - YouTube[/nomedia]


[nomedia="http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=nxeY6bq7lY0&feature=related"]The mistake of an Israeli attack on Iran - YouTube[/nomedia]

Obviously Iraq couldn't stop them, but what would be the repercussions of violating Iraqi airspace?
Nothing apart from the Iraqis complaining to the U.S. and the Arab League.

Through Jordan and Saudi Arabia. Would Jordan and SA allow this?
Officially of course they wouldn't because the locals would go beserk in the knowledge that thir leaders had colluded with Israel. In the wake of the Arab spring, Saudi Arabia, Jordan and other countries are going to great lenghts to keep their citizens happy.

Taking all this into account, Is Israel serious or are they just trying to force everyone else's hand?
All this talk about attacking Iran has less to do with actually warning Iran than it has with reminding the U.S. that Israel might act alone and to build up support amongst its supporters. The Israelis know full well that Obama will have no choice but to 'help' if the Iranians retaliate and their whole strategy is based on this fact - they are under no illusions that their air force can inflict sufficient damage to Iranian facilities and they would have no means to hunt for Iranian missiles.
 
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Quiller

New Member
It occurs to me that an attack on Iran's nuclear production centers....would be unnecessary. The logic has to flow here. If Iran gets nuclear weapons, the world is lost. (Just go with me here for a moment....remember, this is a calculus about wether or not the ends justify the means.) If that is true... genuinely true, or at least a genuinely held belief of truth in Israel or by US planners.... then attacking the nuclear centers is irrelevant.

Destruction of the ability of Iran to generate power... electricity in any form... is the solution. Without power, the nuclear program stops cold. Oh yes, I know that means the civil population is cast adrift... no power for hospitals, etc. Thousands die.. of something. But if the goal is to stop Iran's nuclear weapon development, then....?

Iran's power producers and power grids are not buried under mountains. I'm not talking about an EMP event... just taking out every primary electrical grid, even with cruise missiles. And NO, Iran is not going to build nuclear weapons using emergency diesel generators.

The problem would be the UN woud go ballistic over the dire straits the civilian population would experience. The world would excoriate whatever nation destroyed the power centers. Hence the original premise -- to stop Iran's nukes, the ends would justify the means.

Sturm likes to talk about realpolitik. The world could go apoplectic about it... but not be able to do anything about it. Nothing. That is REALPOLITIK.

Now I'm not saying I support this. But if Iran's nuclear sites are so protected, then taking out the infrastructure upon which they must depend, is the only answer.
 

Quiller

New Member
Besides, America is in the midst of a Presidential election... and the outcome could be a game changer. Not just for the Middle East, but for issues in Asia and with China. Time will tell,
 

3izraeen

New Member
With an attack on Iran imminent. I am interested to know how forum members would respond if they were commander in chief of the Iranian armed forces. Both tactical and strategic considerations should be taken into account, with diplomacy and geopolitics to be considered secondarily. I want to mainly discuss military options.
I'll take a defensive strategy position. I'll just try to defend over my sites. No offensive response will taken because of bad military balance. I'll use religion, Public relation, media and diplomatic curse and I'll release all our ability in this curse. Absolutely there is deference between what we say in media before the enemy strike and the real strategy that taken when the strike in action and what happen after that. I'll take some action in Iraq to complete our fried jobes and throw out US agents from there
 

Beatmaster

New Member
@strum All this talk about attacking Iran has less to do with actually warning Iran than it has with reminding the U.S. that Israel might act alone and to build up support amongst its supporters. The Israelis know full well that Obama will have no choice but to 'help' if the Iranians retaliate and their whole strategy is based on this fact - they are under no illusions that their air force can inflict sufficient damage to Iranian facilities and they would have no means to hunt for Iranian missiles.
That might be so but even with Israels Iron Dome sites in place and their additional ABM capabilities its pretty save to say that the bigger Shahab versions coming from Iran if launched would create serious damage.
I am under no illusion that Israel would catch all of the missiles launched, as Iran is making some serious progress in to get the Shahab 5 and 6 into operational state (If not already operational) Now i know these missiles are not perfect and i know that they might be somewhat backwards technology wise, but then again if a few get trough they pack a serious punch (Check this link)

My point here is that various documentary programs about the Israel /Iran issue reported that even key Israely figures stated that the Shahab is a real danger which cannot be compared to the missiles used by Hezzbolah and other factions.
Their Iron Dome and other ABM systems proved to be extremely successful against very short range missiles from Lebanon during the Hez attacks, but still it was no where near perfect.
Testing and drills have pointed out that Iran would be capable to overwhelm the defense grid and could probably land at least 35% of their arsenal of long and medium range Shahab versions if it would retaliate in force and numbers.
Now lets assume that Israel would strike and lets assume that Iran would lose its patience and temper towards Israel (Even with the prospect of being destroyed) it would have a HUGE impact upon Israeli urban and industrial/military sites.
And even with the idea in mind that uncle sam is going to help out, i would assume that any Israeli key figure would think twice before ordering a strike upon Iran, because even if it would be a smashing success and even if Iran would not retaliate the repercussions in the region and to Israeli diplomatic interests would be substantial.
Some even suggested that it even might change the geographical balances between nations in the middle east as most of them really do not like Iran, but a equal amount does not like Israel either, and when it comes to a conformation then it might be so that Iran will get way more support which could be even more dangerous to Israeli and US interests in the region.
So either way....i personally believe that any action by Israel would backfire and it has to choose the lesser of the presented evils....
Another key factor to consider is that the technological differences (In HUGE favor of Israel) is sort of nullified by the size and stamina that Iran has, which is Iran's biggest asset against Israel.
Because it forces Israel to cover huge distances to do harm to Iran, and the amount of lower tech military hardware that Iran does have starts to pile up and will create, enough defensive standoff to put Israel in a very nasty position.
Keep in mind Syria and the Iraq Strike where both a joke..compared to what Iran can offer to the battle specially because they are warned and know that Israel is not bluffing or joking around, so its save to say that ANY advanced hardware that Iran might have will be ready and waiting for Israel, (Perhaps that those S-300 systems can play a vital roles here) as you said history plays a role here.

* Note i am not sure if the S-300 has been delivered to Iran or that the UN did stop it but i did read that Iran has made a home grown version that claimed to be just as good for what its worth :)
just my cents here...
 

STURM

Well-Known Member
My point here is that various documentary programs about the Israel /Iran issue reported that even key Israely figures stated that the Shahab is a real danger which cannot be compared to the missiles used by Hezzbolah and other factions.
Iranians missiles certainly can cause damage to Israel but the damage they cause will not be decisive, in the sense that they will not lead to a softening of the Israeli position towards Iran and will certainly not degrade Israel's military.. As I have mentioned before the main value of the missiles are that they are symbolic and have a huge political effect, even if most are intercepted and those that get through land on a row of 40 foot containers in Haifa or a parking lot in Tel Aviv, they will have a huge political and psychological effect, in that the Israelis know that luck may favour the Iranians and one or 2 might actually hit military targets or worse, an apartment block. The minute Iranian missiles start hitting Israel, and there is the huge possibility that the Iranians will run out of missiles, we can expect U.S. airpower and missiles to be headed for Iran.

Keep in mind Syria and the Iraq Strike where both a joke..compared to what Iran can offer to the battle specially because they are warned and know that Israel is not bluffing or joking around, so its save to say that ANY advanced hardware that Iran might have will be ready and waiting for Israel, (Perhaps that those S-300 systems can play a vital roles here) as you said history plays a role here.
We have no way of knowing how well the Iranian integrated air defence system will perform untill Iran is actually hit. Prior to the Gulf War we heard some many stories of how Iraqs KARI integrated air defence system and the thousands of missiles and AA guns operated by Iraqi air defence units would lead to huge coalition air losses and we all know how well that turned out for the Iraqis. The biggest 'defence' Iran has is not its surface to surface missiles or the potential of its military to repel any 'invaders' or 'intruders' but its ability to damage American interests across the Middle East by virtue of the level of influence Iran has in many countries and its ability to economicly hurt the U.S..
 

Beatmaster

New Member
Iranians missiles certainly can cause damage to Israel but the damage they cause will not be decisive, in the sense that they will not lead to a softening of the Israeli position towards Iran and will certainly not degrade Israel's military.. As I have mentioned before the main value of the missiles are that they are symbolic and have a huge political effect, even if most are intercepted and those that get through land on a row of 40 foot containers in Haifa or a parking lot in Tel Aviv, they will have a huge political and psychological effect, in that the Israelis know that luck may favour the Iranians and one or 2 might actually hit military targets or worse, an apartment block. The minute Iranian missiles start hitting Israel, and there is the huge possibility that the Iranians will run out of missiles, we can expect U.S. airpower and missiles to be headed for Iran.



We have no way of knowing how well the Iranian integrated air defence system will perform untill Iran is actually hit. Prior to the Gulf War we heard some many stories of how Iraqs KARI integrated air defence system and the thousands of missiles and AA guns operated by Iraqi air defence units would lead to huge coalition air losses and we all know how well that turned out for the Iraqis. The biggest 'defence' Iran has is not its surface to surface missiles or the potential of its military to repel any 'invaders' or 'intruders' but its ability to damage American interests across the Middle East by virtue of the level of influence Iran has in many countries and its ability to economicly hurt the U.S..
Well thats sort of what i am saying, its not a question about what if, but deal with it when it happens.
The shock that Israel will get after being counter hit by Iran will be huge, as it would instantly point out the reality that they ain't that strong and that they do have something to fear other then nuclear weapons.

Obviously as you said there is no way to tell what Iran has prepared in terms of integrated defenses systems and hardware, but given their industry and the ability to home grow some hardware i feel save to say that Iran has better cards then Iraq and Syria combined.
But as a thumb rule here one could say that after the war between Iraq and Iran, the weaknesses of Iran did become visible, it also showed a good example of what western forces could do as they got involved during the war between Iraq and Iran.
My point here is Iran is low tech compared to well settled western forces, but its not that low tech.
Iran knew from the day that the US helped them against Iraq that this would come back some day and with the removal of Iraq there was no reason anymore for the US to consider Iran as a asset in the region...see my point? So Iran would have known that they will be on their own in the future, which means that their whole game plan changed to meet the challenges ahead, and if you look at their industry and their constant efforts to develop home grown weapons, we might conclude there that Israel might be aiming way above their pay rate here.
Afteral we pretty much know what Israel can do....but what do we actually know of Iran?.....even US strategists have pointed that Iran might be a tougher nut to crack then we would give them credit for.
Or do you consider this to be wrong? So let me ask you as one of the more knowledgeable posters here...if push comes to shove here...what can Iran really do? i mean seriously?
 

2007yellow430

Active Member
If push came to shove, and the Iranians really wanted to cause Israel and the US trouble, they could convert some of the fuel rods to a powder and put it on top of some of their missiles aimed at Israel. Would render huge portions of Israel uninhabitable. Probably never happen but the thought of such an attack would make every one reconsider.

Art
 

STURM

Well-Known Member
The shock that Israel will get after being counter hit by Iran will be huge, as it would instantly point out the reality that they ain't that strong and that they do have something to fear other then nuclear weapons.
The Israelis have carefully analysed all the possible implications that their air strikes on Iran will cause. I doubt that anything the Iranians do will come as a surprise to the Israeli leadership, which has had lots of experience over the years fighting in Lebanon against Syria and it proxies. We tend to forget that despite all the rhetoric and anti-Iranian propaganda that comes out of Israel, the Israelis understand the Iranians much better than the Americans do....

But as a thumb rule here one could say that after the war between Iraq and Iran, the weaknesses of Iran did become visible,
Of course it was 'weak', an Iran which had barely gone through the Revolution was forced into an 8 year war in which it lost thousands dead and had its economic infrastructure severely damaged BUT it prevented Iraq from gaining any Iranian territory in Khuzestan AND achieved its main foreign policy goals. It helped Syria prevent Israel from turning the Lebanon into 'friendly' Maronite controlled state, it established itself as a major player in Lebanon, it played a major part in the Israelis getting stuck in Lebanon and it defeated all U.S. and Israeli attempts to defeat Iran in Lebanon. By 1988, its proxy, Hezbollah, was had become the most dominant force in the country and had varying degrees of support from most of the actions, not just the Shia, due to its ressistance against Israel.

If anything, the Iran/Iraq war showed the resilience and ingenuity of the Iranians. Despite being badly hit by purges, having had many of their men fled Iran and being badly hit by a lack of spares and replacement for lost equipment, the Iranian military held the Iraqis off and against all expectations, with limited outside help, manage to keep their U.S. gear running. Unlike Iran, Iraq had no problems buying new gear as it enjoyed the support of many countries and benefited from 'assistance' provided by other countries, such as Kuwait, which allowed Iraqi aircraft to seek refuge there, Egypt which provided advisers and technical help and the U.S. which at a later stage, provided Iraq not only with military gear and satellite imagery but advance warnings of Iranian anti-shipping strikes air raids, courtesy of USN ships in the gulf. And off course, Iraq received billions of dollars in aid from the Gulf States and spent billions on arms from France, Russia and other countries.

Or do you consider this to be wrong? So let me ask you as one of the more knowledgeable posters here...if push comes to shove here...what can Iran really do? i mean seriously?
As we've discussed before, they can do many things but it depends on how far they are willing to go and how badly they are hit. The biggest fear, commonly expressed in various talk shows and articles, is the Iranian threat of using land based missiles and asymmetric means to shut the Straits of Hormuz - this would cause damage to the worlds economy but would surely bring the U.S. in. They can also launched Silkworms and Scuds at oil terminals at Kuwait and Saudi, which would also effect oil prices but this action would be highly dependent on the level of support both countries give to U.S. military action against Iran. The Iranians are aware that Saudi and the gulf states, though they might welcome moves to weaken Iran, are very worried about strikes on Iran as this will create discontent with their populations. The Sunni Arabs do not want to burn their bridges with Iran as Iran is a major regional player, one that they will still have to live alongside with, unlike the Americans. Other targets could included Qatar and Bahrain, both are which are very worried that they could be the target of Iranian missiles due to the U.S. military presence there. And as you know, apart from using Hezbollah to cause trouble in northern Israel - which they might not as it could provide the Israelis with a pretext to go into South Lebanon again and might increase pressure on Assad - the Iranians have a lot of influence in Iran and Afghanistan and if they choose can cause trouble there. And off course, the Iranians can launch missiles at Israel.

If push came to shove, and the Iranians really wanted to cause Israel and the US trouble, they could convert some of the fuel rods to a powder and put it on top of some of their missiles aimed at Israel. Would render huge portions of Israel uninhabitable. Probably never happen but the thought of such an attack would make every one reconsider.

Art
Which the Iranians, even if what you suggested was technically feasible, won't do, as this would lead to the sure destruction of Iran. Thanks to the demonisation of Iran by the mainstream/establishment press, most have the impression that the Iranians are irrational, which given their actions the past few decades in Lebanon where they have been involved in a covert war against Israel and the U.S. and have reached most if not all their goals, shows that they are clearly not. The Iranians calculate all their moves in advance with careful consideration given to military and political consequences, they are certainly not infallible and are certainly not irrational. Against all U.S. attempts to keep Iran out of Iraq and Afghanistan, the Iranians have succeeded in maintaining a presence there and have huge influence there, with both Afghanistan and Iraq, to the immense dismay of the Americans, enjoying strong ties with Iran.
 
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gold eagle

New Member
There's no evidence showing that Iran is going to acquire a nuclear bomb. I think that this conflict is not because of nuclear issues. since Islamic Revolution There was always problems between Iran and The West. It might have another reason such as Israel's economical and political Empire all over the world.
In this century Nations like US start wars to save their interests not to lose them and I think a war whit Iran is a great loss for the both sides. This will start WWIII which is against today's war strategies.
One solution to defeat Iran was powerful sanctions but today it seems that these sanctions are working no more....
The best way to End this conflict is diplomatic solution but again it's not possible.
 

STURM

Well-Known Member
It might have another reason such as Israel's economical and political Empire all over the world.
What on earth are you on about? Israel enjoys tremendous political pull in Washington and it enjoys unconditional support from the U.S. but it certainly has no ''economical and political Empire all over the world''.
 

gold eagle

New Member
What on earth are you on about? Israel enjoys tremendous political pull in Washington and it enjoys unconditional support from the U.S. but it certainly has no ''economical and political Empire all over the world''.
Whatever you say!!:duel

There are many scenarios of invasion on Iran. In all of these scenarios, Iran only lunches its missile strikes against the invader. For example if Israel attacks Iran without military support of US and NATO; Iran's respond will only target Israel.
 

STURM

Well-Known Member
Whatever you say!!:duel
Thank you... And I stand by what I said as to the non-existence of an Israeli ''economical and political Empire''. Instead a making a sarcastic comment perhaps you could clarify what you meant by ''Israel's economical and political Empire''.
 
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Quiller

New Member
Drastically curtailing power going to the Iranian national power grid is a viable strategic option to stall their efforts to develope nuclear weapons. There are only about 20 power generating facilities producing 1000 MW or more of power. These may be defended by AA and SAMS, but not with as much depth as their nuclear research facilities. The only exception would be the Bushehr nuclear powerplant which would be a key target under any scenario.

Additionally there are two hydroelectric dams that provide less than 1000 MW of power, but are key facilities. The Amir Kabir damn, for example, only produces 100 MW or so of power, but provides Teheran with much of its water.

While it is true these facilities could be repaired, their destruction alone would seriously impact the military's C3 efforts nationwide and would render them much more vulnerable to the following waves of attacks on the entrenched facilities at Natanz, Fordu and other facilities.

Iran's potential military response could be significantly degraded if these 20 power stations were included in the initial targeting scenario, either by cruise missiles from submarines or by USAF/USN bomb runs. Day one presents Iran as a extremely target rich environment... but hitting the crucial powerplants could be extremely useful overall.
 

Quiller

New Member
Let me ask you all --

I agree with an earlier post that the Iranian leadership takes extreme care to calculate their moves. No doubt they should be excellent chess players. Powerful elements in the regime often appear potentially irrational because of their religious fervor and open celebration of the end of the world with the final coming of Allah. This makes many people believe their careful calculus is nonetheless based on irrational desire for the final day, so to speak.

But that aside... Iran's current missile launch wargames warning suggested their ability and willingness to launch missiles against a variety of American installations throughout the Middle East. Fair enough. My question is, would Iran, meticulous players that they are, hit Turkish soil with missiles? I can understand the UAE and Saudi Arabia, largely because these countries response would only be whatever the US does.

But Turkey (despite their issues with Syria) have a significant military that could establish new air combat fronts, so to speak. It seems to me they would not hit any bases inside Turkey, because they would have more to lose than gain.

Yes or no?
 

STURM

Well-Known Member
Unless Turkey plays a direct role in the conflict, I don't see why Iran would want to initiate hostilities against Turkey. Iran would have nothing to gain from such a move. There is also the possibility that if strikes take place and the region eqrupts in conflict, Turkey, with the bessing of the U.S. and the Arabs, might be able to play the role of mediator, eventhough it is has been calling for the ouster of Assad, Iran's only Arab ally.
 
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