Missile shield

[Superman111]

I know there has been some posts about teh missile shield, but if Russia really did attack the missile shield, What would be the NATO response and what could be the possible consequences?

 

[LeGrig]

Could you explain NATO's "missile shield"?

 

[Smokin' Joe]

Could you explain NATO's "missile shield"?

NATO started the first phases of setting up a "missile shield" this Sunday (5/20/2012) made up of detection and tracking radars and intercepting weapons systems. NATO says that these are to be used against hostile countries launching weapons such as Iran, but Russia has concerns about the capability to take out their weapons as well.

I am sure you can put the rest together and figure out why this is a problem.

 

[Smokin' Joe]

I know there has been some posts about teh missile shield, but if Russia really did attack the missile shield, What would be the NATO response and what could be the possible consequences?

Are you talking about an actual bombing on the "shield" or are you talking about electronically attacking some of the systems or some other form of attack?

 

[Superman111]

Are you talking about an actual bombing on the "shield" or are you talking about electronically attacking some of the systems or some other form of attack?

I am talking about a conventional/WMD strike on the bases or radars in the system

 

[Nakalemo]

[But honestly the West and NATO allies's MD is not really justfiable, the two countries in question for the system are not capable of doing that. The issues is just escalated exactly like the reasons used to invade IRAQ. Such MD systems are aimed at RUSSIA and CHINA in the region and no one can deny that. Why are they failing to guarentee the RUSSIAN federation as requested just the fact that they are hidding some of those technicality its because RUSSIA is the most target. WHY are those USA heavy weapons mean to surround RUSSIA?? long term millitary strategy to attack RUSSIANS and its ICBMs to fall back in RUSSIAN mainland incase they fire some. The WEST and NATO need to stop that system coz it may lead to a nuclear war soon and mass casualties. The Russians are quite now but you do not know what they are planning as response, no one should be quiete while something to kill you is being built and you are looking at it, you need to act before its completion

 

[StobieWan]

[But honestly the West and NATO allies's MD is not really justfiable, the two countries in question for the system are not capable of doing that. The issues is just escalated exactly like the reasons used to invade IRAQ. Such MD systems are aimed at RUSSIA and CHINA in the region and no one can deny that. Why are they failing to guarentee the RUSSIAN federation as requested just the fact that they are hidding some of those technicality its because RUSSIA is the most target. WHY are those USA heavy weapons mean to surround RUSSIA?? long term millitary strategy to attack RUSSIANS and its ICBMs to fall back in RUSSIAN mainland incase they fire some. The WEST and NATO need to stop that system coz it may lead to a nuclear war soon and mass casualties. The Russians are quite now but you do not know what they are planning as response, no one should be quiete while something to kill you is being built and you are looking at it, you need to act before its completion

What on earth are you on about ? The radars in question are part of a system aimed and intercepting IRBM's coming from the Middle East (which effectively means Iran right now)

The system isn't capable of doing much useful work against a Russian missile strike because the trajectory will be wrong - any US/Russian nuclear exchange would primarily range across the Pacific and Polar regions. Additionally, the systems being deployed really aren't optimised for use against an ICBMs.


It's a defensive system...

 

[Smokin' Joe]

What on earth are you on about ? The radars in question are part of a system aimed and intercepting IRBM's coming from the Middle East (which effectively means Iran right now)

The system isn't capable of doing much useful work against a Russian missile strike because the trajectory will be wrong - any US/Russian nuclear exchange would primarily range across the Pacific and Polar regions. Additionally, the systems being deployed really aren't optimised for use against an ICBMs.


It's a defensive system...

Actually he is quite right. You state that this system is to intercept IRBMs from Iran. Can you tell me what IRBMs are in the Iranian inventory?

If the system wasn't capable of working against Russian missiles they would not be upset about it. While they say it isn't capable of intercepting ICBMs at the present time there will be upgrades in the future.

 

[Equinox]

Actually he is quite right. You state that this system is to intercept IRBMs from Iran. Can you tell me what IRBMs are in the Iranian inventory?

If the system wasn't capable of working against Russian missiles they would not be upset about it. While they say it isn't capable of intercepting ICBMs at the present time there will be upgrades in the future.

You're rather silly if you think it wouldn't be rather obvious as to what the US/NATO were doing if they were actually deploying a system capable of being a credible threat to the Russian nuclear arsenal. What they're deploying in Poland might be able to be used against a Russian nuclear attack--but that doesn't mean it can actually do much more than scratch Russia's arsenal.

Also, in regards to the Iranians possessing IRBM's... if they had them it would be a bit late to think about developing a defensive system, don't you think? I also believe the system is to be there in case the North Koreans send something Europe's way.

The Russians are upset about it because any ballistic missile would likely be shot down over their territory, and because they've been cut out of the development/implementation. Not to mention Poland was, and still is, viewed by the Russians as within their area of influence.

 

[Smokin' Joe]

You're rather silly if you think it wouldn't be rather obvious as to what the US/NATO were doing if they were actually deploying a system capable of being a credible threat to the Russian nuclear arsenal. What they're deploying in Poland might be able to be used against a Russian nuclear attack--but that doesn't mean it can actually do much more than scratch Russia's arsenal.

I don't know if silly is the right word. It does seem a little suspicious. How happy would Australia be if Malaysia or Indonesia started building defense systems in New Zealand? Obviously there would be no reason for this but you wouldn't be happy.

Also, in regards to the Iranians possessing IRBM's... if they had them it would be a bit late to think about developing a defensive system, don't you think? I also believe the system is to be there in case the North Koreans send something Europe's way.

North Korea would be lucky if they could hit something else besides........ well North Korea.

As far as your reasoning as to why the Russians are upset... you have valid points. Why not be upset about that? Someone just set up a missile system in your back yard without your help. If that is the actual case then the threats are pretty empty themselves and that would answer the original question.

 

[StobieWan]

Well, given Russia already fields a nuclear tipped ABM system, why are they allowed to get their panties in a bunch about a very limited (some would say non-functional) missile shield using conventional missiles ?

I'm just baffled as to why, when they're still staring a few thousand ICBM's in the face, they're getting so confrontational about something that physically can't intercept any of their longer range stuff and which would be marginal against even a salvo firing of a few of their existing IRBM's ?

Not getting it...

 

[Smokin' Joe]

They are a superpower. They can get their panties in a bunch over whatever they want.

I understand completely what you guys are saying. I am wondering if it is actually worth the drama. North Korea cannot seem to get their technology down and besides Israel, who is not a part of NATO, I am not sure who this missile system is protecting from Iran.

This isn't my usual subject so if I am missing something, and I very well may be, I would welcome information.

 

[StobieWan]

Well, you see, this is now logical - we have a pretend missile shield facing a pretend WMD threat.

Job's a good 'un.

 

[Smokin' Joe]

Well, you see, this is now logical - we have a pretend missile shield facing a pretend WMD threat.

Job's a good 'un.

Laffs

I have nothing else to say.

 

[Belesari]

I think the russian missile shield fiasco is basicly good PR for certain parts of russia and those like them.

We arent talking about stationing 4-500 SM-3's there. So we arent talking game changer.

Basicly russia see's that part of the world as its territory, so its wants the US out.

Well, given Russia already fields a nuclear tipped ABM system, why are they allowed to get their panties in a bunch about a very limited (some would say non-functional) missile shield using conventional missiles ?

I'm just baffled as to why, when they're still staring a few thousand ICBM's in the face, they're getting so confrontational about something that physically can't intercept any of their longer range stuff and which would be marginal against even a salvo firing of a few of their existing IRBM's ?

Not getting it...

 

[Equinox]

I don't know if silly is the right word. It does seem a little suspicious. How happy would Australia be if Malaysia or Indonesia started building defense systems in New Zealand? Obviously there would be no reason for this but you wouldn't be happy.

North Korea would be lucky if they could hit something else besides........ well North Korea.

As far as your reasoning as to why the Russians are upset... you have valid points. Why not be upset about that? Someone just set up a missile system in your back yard without your help. If that is the actual case then the threats are pretty empty themselves and that would answer the original question.

Maybe, it's hard to respond to your analogy because of the extreme unlikely hood of what you are saying... but if Australia were involved, I'm sure we'd probably be fairly content. Which as I said, is the crux of the issue. The Russians don't appreciate being ignored, especially in an area they view as their backyard. Their pride is already smarting from two decades of dismissal by the West, the fact that NATO/US feel secure enough to deploy a missile shield right next to them really doesn't help the Russian ego.

 

[Smokin' Joe]

Maybe, it's hard to respond to your analogy because of the extreme unlikely hood of what you are saying... but if Australia were involved, I'm sure we'd probably be fairly content. Which as I said, is the crux of the issue. The Russians don't appreciate being ignored, especially in an area they view as their backyard. Their pride is already smarting from two decades of dismissal by the West, the fact that NATO/US feel secure enough to deploy a missile shield right next to them really doesn't help the Russian ego.

Yeah I couldn't think of a better analogy than that and understand the unlikelyhood of it. But that is exactly my point. No where else needs this type of defense at the moment. And I totally agree with your pride theory. I just don't understand why NATO has to poke them with a stick.

 

[Equinox]

Yeah I couldn't think of a better analogy than that and understand the unlikelyhood of it. But that is exactly my point. No where else needs this type of defense at the moment. And I totally agree with your pride theory. I just don't understand why NATO has to poke them with a stick.

To be fair, I don't think it's a matter of deliberately provoking Russia. If I recall correctly, where it is being placed actually is the best location for it. Anyway, as I mentioned earlier, the West has been rather dismissive of Russia since the end of the Cold War, for a variety of reasons; so it's probably not even much of a consideration to them--especially if it's about Russian pride.

 

[My2Cents]

I'm just baffled as to why, when they're still staring a few thousand ICBM's in the face, they're getting so confrontational about something that physically can't intercept any of their longer range stuff and which would be marginal against even a salvo firing of a few of their existing IRBM's ?

Not getting it...

1. Putin and company are trying to divert public attention with the old Cold War politics. It seems to be working some too.
2. The Russians are holding out for some kind of a payoff and figure that if they make enough noise NATO will agree to it just so they will shut up. Probably something like a NATO guarantee that they will not add anymore members from the former Warsaw Pact or USSR. I suspect that they have overplayed their hand on this and will get nothing, but cannot back down now without committing political suicide.

In other words, it is just political bombast. :coffee

 

[My2Cents]

They are a superpower. They can get their panties in a bunch over whatever they want.

I understand completely what you guys are saying. I am wondering if it is actually worth the drama. North Korea cannot seem to get their technology down and besides Israel, who is not a part of NATO, I am not sure who this missile system is protecting from Iran.

This isn't my usual subject so if I am missing something, and I very well may be, I would welcome information.

North Korea’s targets will be the US and Japan. Japan is building a serious short range ABM based around SM-3 and Patriot missile systems. A shot at the US has to cross the Pacific Ocean and who knows how many Navy SM-3’s (assuming the Japanese don’t nail it first). It is also proposed that if they ever build the Ground based Midcourse Defense (GMD) system that the first one will probably be on Midway.