Royal Australian Air Force [RAAF] News, Discussions and Updates

[south]

Compared to the cost of operating a Chinook / FA18 / Seahawk salary is chump change.

There is also the fact that those Officers who are undertaking other positions are actually required. If you move to a flying rank structure full of WO's either the WO's are going to have to take on those roles OR your officers are going to get pretty hacked off with having to much time behind a desk and not enough time flying.

There is no getting fired if you spend too long in a given rank. Up until recently you could opt out of getting reviewed by the promotion boards. The system you describe does happen in the US but not in Aus.

Additionally the RAAF (Not sure about RAN/ARMY) have specialist aircrew positions where that person will remain in a flying position at a stable location and opt out of some other things (such as promotion, pay increase etc)...

So essentially WO aircrew not required.

 

[Marc 1]

The Australian company GippsAero has bought the rights and is marketing the (hopefully improved) Nomad.

Did'nt I read recently where GippsAero has been taken over by an Indian company?

Correct. Indian company buys Gipps Aero and Aerostaff | Australian Aviation Magazine

 

[John Newman]

Growlers for RAAF?

Just saw this on the Australian Aviation website:

US flags sale of Growler kits to RAAF | Australian Aviation Magazine

The notification of a "possible" sale of kits to convert 12 of the F/A-18F's to Growler configuration.

I added a comment to it, but I'll recap it here too.

In the notification it states the potential purchase of the ALQ-99 pods, which as I understand it, means that this is for Growler "Full", but makes no mention of the wingtip ALQ-218 pods, which, again as I understand it, is what is requried for at least Growler "Lite" configuration.

Is that correct? Can one of the DefPro's here confirm what I'm saying?

If the RAAF converts 12 to full Growler, how does that affect the remaining 12 unmodified FA18F's?

As I understood it, 1sqn is the "operational" sqn, and 6sqn is the "training/support" sqn, as had been the case with the F111's.

If 6sqn, for example, is the new Electronic Warfare sqn, which I think is a great idea, does that possibly detract from the main role of 1sqn? Not having a "training and backup" because they are focused on a different role.

Does this open the door for a possible purchase of more FA18F's?

 

[jack412]

The ALQ-218 pods and some other stuff was ordered as long lead items in the last announcement.
Australia’s Super Hornet to EA-18G Growler conversion moves ahead

http://www.dsca.mil/PressReleases/36-b/2012/Australia_12-27.pdf
WASHINGTON, May 22, 2012 – The Defense Security Cooperation Agency notified Congress today of a possible Foreign Military Sale to the Government of Australia for 12 EA-18G Modification Kits to convert F/A-18F aircrafts to the G configuration and associated parts, equipment, training and logistical support for an estimated cost of $1.7 billion.
The Government of Australia has requested a possible sale of
12 EA-18G Modification Kits to convert F/A-18F aircrafts to G configuration,
(34) AN/ALQ-99F(V) Tactical Jamming System Pods,
(22) CN-1717/A Interference Cancellation Systems (INCANS),
(22) R-2674(C)/A Joint Tactical Terminal Receiver (JTTR) Systems,
(30) LAU-118 Guided Missile Launchers, Command Launch Computer (CLC) for High Speed Anti-Radiation Missile (HARM) and Advanced Anti-Radiation Guided Missile (AARGM, spare and repair parts, support and test equipment, publications and technical documentation, personnel training and training equipment, U.S. Government (USG) and contractor engineering, technical, and logistics support services, and other related elements of logistical and program support. The estimated cost is $1.7 billion.

does anyone else think the $1.7b seems a bit high ? ?.
the conversion was priced about $300m, so that leaves $1.4b for pods and support

 

[gf0012-aust]

does anyone else think the $1.7b seems a bit high ? ?.
the conversion was priced about $300m, so that leaves $1.4b for pods and support

price includes TLS as well as work being done offshore by JEW staff costs etc...

 

[jack412]

Ok thanks, that explains it, I thought all that would have been added our end and not in the FMS

 

[gf0012-aust]

Ok thanks, that explains it, I thought all that would have been added our end and not in the FMS

even the FMS quotes can be black magic accounting and to get clarity requires looking at the actual FMS constraints as articulated for the article being procured.

unfort there is no standard FMS "model"

 

[Abraham Gubler]

does anyone else think the $1.7b seems a bit high ? ?.
the conversion was priced about $300m, so that leaves $1.4b for pods and support

DSCA notices aren't always complete. Sometimes something important is left off the public list. In this case I would assume that is the acquisition of anti-radiation weapons (because type hasn’t been selected yet) and TLS of the EW gear for 20 odd years. That would add several hundred million dollars.

 

[weegee]

DSCA notices aren't always complete. Sometimes something important is left off the public list. In this case I would assume that is the acquisition of anti-radiation weapons (because type hasn’t been selected yet) and TLS of the EW gear for 20 odd years. That would add several hundred million dollars.

I thought this was one of the projects that was put on the back burner because of the budget? Or do all these items have REALLY long lead times? It is great if it does go ahead it surely will the give the RAAF something that no one else has in SEA for sure.

 

[John Newman]

I thought this was one of the projects that was put on the back burner because of the budget? Or do all these items have REALLY long lead times? It is great if it does go ahead it surely will the give the RAAF something that no one else has in SEA for sure.

The project hasn't been announced by the Government.

The US DSCA notices are part of the "process" of receiving approval from the US Government for a particular piece of equipment to be sold to an ally, such as Australia, and if you read the notices, usually at the bottom it also says, this doesn't necessarily mean that is been approved for either sale or purchase, again its part of the process.

In fact if you go to the DSCA web site you will see a whole range of announcements regarding "possible" sale of US equipment, one that springs to mind is a few years ago.

When we purchased JASSM for the classic hornets, there is also a notice regarding the "possible" sale of SLAM-ER, a competing missile that didn't get selected. In the end we did order JASSM.

In regard to whether the purchase will go ahead because of the Budget constraits, we will just have to wait and see if and when the DefMin announces it.

But if you have a look through the various announcements/statements of DefMin Smith on the Defence web site, he has been regularly "talking" about Growler, so that at least means its on the table.

In one of his recent interviews, at the Pearce Air Show, he was asked various questions, he kept bring up the 12 Super Hornets that had been "pre-wired" for Growler.

Just have to wait and see!

 

[t68]

Just saw this on the Australian Aviation website:

US flags sale of Growler kits to RAAF | Australian Aviation Magazine

The notification of a "possible" sale of kits to convert 12 of the F/A-18F's to Growler configuration.

I added a comment to it, but I'll recap it here too.

In the notification it states the potential purchase of the ALQ-99 pods, which as I understand it, means that this is for Growler "Full", but makes no mention of the wingtip ALQ-218 pods, which, again as I understand it, is what is requried for at least Growler "Lite" configuration.

Is that correct? Can one of the DefPro's here confirm what I'm saying?

If the RAAF converts 12 to full Growler, how does that affect the remaining 12 unmodified FA18F's?

As I understood it, 1sqn is the "operational" sqn, and 6sqn is the "training/support" sqn, as had been the case with the F111's.

If 6sqn, for example, is the new Electronic Warfare sqn, which I think is a great idea, does that possibly detract from the main role of 1sqn? Not having a "training and backup" because they are focused on a different role.

Does this open the door for a possible purchase of more FA18F's?

I think what you are trying to get at is how does the affect the composition of the 1st and 6th Squadrons with the introduction of Growler into the RAAF.

From what I am lead to believe only 6 of the 12 airframes which have been pre-wired to accept Growler capability will be converted to EW aircraft. It makes for an interesting dilemma on how RAAF will accommodate the changes, do they raise another Squadron to provide a specialized Electronic Warfare Squadron and leave the 6th Squadron with only 6 aircraft to form an OCU or leave them with the 6th Squadron in a similar fashion when they had the special Reconnaissance flight or have a mixed Squadrons F models with own organic EW aircraft? The aircraft do not have to stay in Growler configuration all the time and the pods can be placed on and off at will, but to exploit the gains from such aircraft pilots would have continually train with the asset in place.

Certainly if they change all 12 aircraft that creates a huge burden on the remaining Squadron to complete its tasking on what would normally have been spread out over 24 aircraft to 12, it remains to be seen on how the RAAF moves with these changes but this would have been factored in when the pre-wired 12 aircraft, it only makes sense to convert all 12 aircraft if another batch were to be ordered to fill out both 1st and 6th Squadrons to authorized strength.

 

[jack412]

Or they could also use 4-6 hornets, 1 super hornet and 1 growler as an A2A unit, the hornets could go passive. That combination would scare me if I was on the other end of it.
If they don't buy more supers, I think they will need to combine them in air and ground units for effect till the f-35 comes, any thoughts on this?

 

[StingrayOZ]

Could an exchange happen? Return the 12 SH unwired for 12 more wired units. Given that the F-35 EW version has been put off again, it may be worthwhile to have that?

But they specifically chose only 12 to be wired. I would assume that's how they would want to operate. I don't see us having more than 24 SH. I would imagine we would keep the other 12 (non wired) as bomb trucks, training etc.?

At the moment we are really in an interim phase.We have options, and capable ones at that, but ideally we would have 75 F-35 and 24 SH.

 

[Abraham Gubler]

You guys are seriously over planning the 82 Wing force structure. If we get 12 Growler conversions (and it is still an if of 0 to 12 and any number in between) then that won’t require any change to the structure of 82 Wing. It will just mean that this formation will produce a combat squadron that is half Growler and half two seat Super Hornet. You will need Growlers to train up Growler crews in the training unit (Number 6 Squadron, there is no such thing as a 6th Squadron in the RAAF) to sustain the combat unit (No. 1 Squadron, No. being the accepted abbreviation for “Number”).

 

[Volkodav]

If 35 Sqn is being reraised to fly Spartans what is happening to 38 Sqn and their King Airs? I wonder if they will be retained to fill the same sort of roles formerly carried out by 173rd Survaillence Sqn prior to conversion to Kiowas? Any chance long term of seeing any of them fitted out with one of the US ISR kits?

 

[Abraham Gubler]

I wonder if they will be retained to fill the same sort of roles formerly carried out by 173rd Survaillence Sqn prior to conversion to Kiowas? Any chance long term of seeing any of them fitted out with one of the US ISR kits?

They still have an ISR role and ISR kit. Its just on the secret list so little info gets out.

BTW 173 Sqn never converted to Kiowas they became part of 38 Sqn. Then because there was no new helicopters for their pilots to fly because of the ARH delays the Army raised a LUH squadron in 6 Avn Regt and had to call it something.

 

[hairyman]

We all know that the 24 two seater F-18F's have replaced the F111 as our strike aircraft. Any further aircraft will be replacing the single seat F-18. So is the F-18E the way to go, or are there better aircraft for that job out there?:kar

 

[Abraham Gubler]

So is the F-18E the way to go, or are there better aircraft for that job out there?:kar

Ahh... F-35A?

 

[the road runner]

We all know that the 24 two seater F-18F's have replaced the F111 as our strike aircraft. Any further aircraft will be replacing the single seat F-18. So is the F-18E the way to go, or are there better aircraft for that job out there?:kar

The F-18E was the way to go for an interim fighter.We were already a Hornet user ,with our "classic" Hornets.If we were to choose a F-15 ,it would have been alot more expensive to fly per man hour and also cost us more to set up infrastructure to use another fighter.

Australia is now only the Second country in the world to soon have a Growler capability.Thats speaks volume as to how close the Aus/US alliance is.
As Abe pointed out the F-35 is what the Chief of the RAAF have always wanted.

 

[ADMk2]

Ahh... F-35A?

I think he's referring to the shorter term, rather than the longer term...